Coast live oak

[jquast]

Wanted to start chronicling some development on a Coast live oak that I've been working on for a few years now. Purchased this from a nursery down in Prunedale about five years ago and it was likely field dug from a seedling and placed in a five gallon nursery can.

Brought it to a workshop with Peter Tea just before he left for his internship in Japan and we decided on a transition point and reduced it to the point where the multiple trunks break from the main trunk. Been using a method of developing Oaks that John Thompson talks about of shaping a section of trunk/branching and then cutting it back to develop both movement and taper and then developing the next section.

Pulled it off the shelf this week and cut some of the heavier branches back to get some back budding for next years spring growth and removed a few branches that would not be needed in the final design. The #2 branch on the right will be cut back significantly as soon as a large would closes up in the next year or two.

It has about a four inch trunk at the soil line and its final height should be close to 24 inches once the canopy is finally in place.

 

[sorce]

Is Prunedale real? Or just a mythical Bonsai land?

I love the movement. Should grow into it well.

Will you keep the short low trunk?

Sorce

 

[Si Nguyen]

That's a really nice live oak! It's cool that you developed it from nursery grown material too. It is not easy to get a big branch spread like that.
But I wonder about your timing of pruning. These oaks are best pruned only once a year in the winter. Summer pruning can be safe sometime, but not best. Definitely do not prune in the spring or fall. I only have a few oak trees, so my experience may be limited. And my climate zone is probably warmer than yours. But if I were you, I would check with more sources about the timing of pruning of live oaks. Pruning at the wrong time of year can weaken or kill them. Your tree looks strong before the pruning, so it will survive, but I have a feeling you may get some die back on those nice branches.
One more idea, if you don't mind: leave a collar on the branch when you prune it. The latent buds are right at the crotch and you may need a branch there later. After a year or two, you can come back and remove the collar.
Good luck!

 

[Poink88]

Nice tree.

One potential problem I see developing is a reverse taper at the trunk chop. You have several branches there causing it. If this is mine, I will (though painful) remove the one in the middle as shown.

 

[jquast]

Is Prunedale real? Or just a mythical Bonsai land?

I love the movement. Should grow into it well.

Will you keep the short low trunk?

Sorce

Thanks Sorce.

I do plan to keep the lower trunk. It is hard to see it is the pictures but the branches coming off of it have some really interesting movement in them.

Prunedale is in fact real although I believe that Ed and Tomi closed the nursery a few years ago. I have not been down there in some time but that was their plan.

 

[sorce]

I do like that little trunk.

I was thinking cut off the big one left of the red mark

 

[Vin]

I do like that little trunk.

I was thinking cut off the big one left of the red mark

I'm with you on that branch; it's just too big, there's no movement and has reverse taper. I think I would leave the one Dario marked and not only remove the big branch in front but the one behind the marked branch as well. Obviously it's not my tree but that would be my inclination. Nice bones though.

 

[Poink88]

...
I was thinking cut off the big one left of the red mark

I'm with you on that branch; it's just too big, there's no movement and has reverse taper. I think I would leave the one Dario marked and not only remove the big branch in front but the one behind the marked branch as well.....

Wow and I thought my suggestion was gutsy. Vin, you are hard core! LOL

 

[Vin]

Wow and I thought my suggestion was gutsy. Vin, you are hard core! LOL

Haha! Actually, after looking at it again removing the branch you marked and the big one next to it would be an option as well if it were mine. I am a bit gutsy with my material. If you remember that boxwood I cut back too far, it didn't make it. I've learned for the next one though but still miss that fabulous trunk

 

[JJshives]

Hopefully this does not derail the thread, but I have a small coast live oak I collected from my yard. It was the only one that survived out of 3 that I collected in spring. It struggled along at first but is picking up steam and really starting to grow. I haven't found much info on the care for these at all with regards to bonsai training.

My question is, what kind of soil was this grown in at the nursery and can you describe the repotting/root work you did to get it into the pot its in now? I'm worried about repotting when the time comes and although it will need to grow for a few more years before its ready for a bonsai pot, I think I'll need to get it into something bigger first to bulk up. Its currently in a 2 gallon pot I believe.

Thanks for any info/tips. They are greatly appreciated. And I am fully aware of the mythical bonsai land of Prundale, aka Prunetucky, as its called by the surrounding areas which is where I grew up haha.

 

[Poink88]

JJshives,

Not sure how different coastal live oak to our (TX) live oak is but I had great luck pruning and repotting my nursery live oak during summer. Bare root and hard chop to a stump too. I did this twice and both survived. YMMV

 

[jquast]

Hopefully this does not derail the thread, but I have a small coast live oak I collected from my yard. It was the only one that survived out of 3 that I collected in spring. It struggled along at first but is picking up steam and really starting to grow. I haven't found much info on the care for these at all with regards to bonsai training.

My question is, what kind of soil was this grown in at the nursery and can you describe the repotting/root work you did to get it into the pot its in now? I'm worried about repotting when the time comes and although it will need to grow for a few more years before its ready for a bonsai pot, I think I'll need to get it into something bigger first to bulk up. Its currently in a 2 gallon pot I believe.

Thanks for any info/tips. They are greatly appreciated. And I am fully aware of the mythical bonsai land of Prundale, aka Prunetucky, as its called by the surrounding areas which is where I grew up haha.

JJshives,

This oak was in a very sandy soil when I purchased it so repotting it was quite easy and I was able to get it out of the nursery can and straight into a training pot. Paul H. who is an active member on the Nut has written some suggestions for both collecting oaks and repotting them so if you search through his postings you should be able to find them.

John Thompson suggests that in our area repotting of oaks in the fall is possible since we have mild winters so long as they are protected from any freezes that may happen. This allows them to get a head start in the spring and respond with stronger growth than if they were repotted in the spring.

I've been fairly rough on some of my coast oaks with root pruning and they have survived however they stalled and took most of the growing season off and did not put on any significant growth until the next year.

 

[jquast]

I'm with you on that branch; it's just too big, there's no movement and has reverse taper. I think I would leave the one Dario marked and not only remove the big branch in front but the one behind the marked branch as well. Obviously it's not my tree but that would be my inclination. Nice bones though.

Hi Vin,

it is hard to see in the photo but there is both movement and taper in the large branch. The look of reverse taper is an optical illusion from the 2-D photo and I will post some pics from both the left and right sides this weekend.

Thanks for posting about the tree.

jeff

 

[Vin]

Jeff,

Please don't take my comment as being critical. You didn't even ask for input or ideas yet we posted our thoughts. And, that's just what they are based on the photos; thoughts based on what can be seen. However, having the tree setting in front of you and seeing it outside of 2D always presents the truest prospective. Looking forward to updates as you progress with it.

Vince

 

[JJshives]

JJshives,

Not sure how different coastal live oak to our (TX) live oak is but I had great luck pruning and repotting my nursery live oak during summer. Bare root and hard chop to a stump too. I did this twice and both survived. YMMV

Thanks for the info, I have read before that removal of all foliage will help in the survival of these trees during any repot or root work.

Not exactly sure what YMMV means but I assume you're throwing it out as a disclaimer in case I kill a tree following your advice? Haha

 

[JJshives]

JJshives,

This oak was in a very sandy soil when I purchased it so repotting it was quite easy and I was able to get it out of the nursery can and straight into a training pot. Paul H. who is an active member on the Nut has written some suggestions for both collecting oaks and repotting them so if you search through his postings you should be able to find them.

John Thompson suggests that in our area repotting of oaks in the fall is possible since we have mild winters so long as they are protected from any freezes that may happen. This allows them to get a head start in the spring and respond with stronger growth than if they were repotted in the spring.

I've been fairly rough on some of my coast oaks with root pruning and they have survived however they stalled and took most of the growing season off and did not put on any significant growth until the next year.

Hmmmm interesting that it was in sandy soil. I wonder how that affects root development in these trees. Was the long tap root already removed from this one when you did your first repot?

I'll have to read Paul H's posts then, I'm pretty sure I have in the past, but a refresher will definitely be helpful.

I think I'm concerned about repotting because the collection of the seedlings I did was not very easy and my results were poor. Sounds like once they are in a pot and settle in for a couple years they are easier to work with.

I wish you much success with this one, it looks great already. Keep us updated with the progress please.

 

[Poink88]

Not exactly sure what YMMV means but I assume you're throwing it out as a disclaimer in case I kill a tree following your advice? Haha

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary

...and yes it is a disclaimer.

 

[jquast]

Hmmmm interesting that it was in sandy soil. I wonder how that affects root development in these trees. Was the long tap root already removed from this one when you did your first repot?

I'll have to read Paul H's posts then, I'm pretty sure I have in the past, but a refresher will definitely be helpful.

I think I'm concerned about repotting because the collection of the seedlings I did was not very easy and my results were poor. Sounds like once they are in a pot and settle in for a couple years they are easier to work with.

I wish you much success with this one, it looks great already. Keep us updated with the progress please.

JJShives,

This was the local field soil and I think that the tree was field dug and just planted in what was there and available. The tree grew very well the first year that I had it while it was in the nursery can and I don't think that the soil had any adverse effects on its health. I still have trees that I purchased at this nursery in the original soil and they are growing great as well.

The tap root was not present when I moved it from the nursery can to the training pot and in my experience (have repotted a few other live oaks) they handle repotting/root pruning fairly well when done at the correct times of the year.

 

[jquast]

Here are a few additional pictures of the primary and secondary branches. The Top view pic is oriented with the front of the tree on the left hand side.