Pro's Choice equivilant to Turface MVP

[sfhellwig]

Finished sifting the bag and same results, loss of about 1/3 of the bag. I realize the 1/16" screen is small but figured that 1/8" hardware cloth would just be scary. That and I do want to use some of this stuff. After my observations this season I will adjust appropriately. I'll gladly take suggestions for screen cloth in better increments. Since I will be doing these volumes regularly I don't think the little round multi-screen sets are the way to go.

I tried Oil-Dri because I read someone did a soak test on it for 48 hours and it did fine. I figured it was real world results and it was. However, six months later I still had a crumbling product in my pot. Luckily I only had one tree in that mix. People have been saying the NAPA stuff is good too but I couldn't bring myself to re-pot all of my trees and have that happen on a large scale. It can take a little creative calling to find the ball field conditioner but I am convinced it is worth it. Side by side the difference is noticeable. I also have NO affiliation with any of the manufacturers of any of these products. Good luck with the two products you plan to test. I think the Oil-Dri may be the same clay but fired lower. I have not examined any litter products.

 

[Ross]

Ok, here are the three subjects. Left to right we have Turface, Oil-Dri, and Special Kitty. I'm not worried about the Turface, so I only tested the Oil-Dri and Special Kitty.

 

[Ross]

I filled two glasses about 1/3 full each of Special Kitty and Oil-Dri and let them soak for three days. They both looked ok when I poured them out (the Oil-Dri looked slightly better), but when I started to handle the stuff it all started to fall apart. Both products soon turned to mush in my hands. So, Um, Yeah, Tom's right of course, don't use this junk. Turface doesn't fall apart like this in my experience.

 

[Tachigi]

I filled two glasses about 1/3 full each of Special Kitty and Oil-Dri and let them soak for three days. They both looked ok when I poured them out (the Oil-Dri looked slightly better), but when I started to handle the stuff it all started to fall apart. Both products soon turned to mush in my hands.

Kudos to you Ross,

I think this is the first time anyone has documented this experiment...at least that I am aware of. Hopefully this will show others that oil dry and kitty litter is not a suitable soil component and will save them time, trees, and their sanity.

Your trees and I thank you Ross

 

[sfhellwig]

I can't find it now but one of the sites claimed 20 years before breakdown of the soil conditioner products. I think that may be stretching it or measuring until it's dust, but either way it, that will last long enough for me.

I took the Oil-Dri I spent so much time sifting and poured it back in the bag. The one for soaking up spilled oil.

 

[bretts]

Kudos to you Ross,

I think this is the first time anyone has documented this experiment...at least that I am aware of. Hopefully this will show others that oil dry and kitty litter is not a suitable soil component and will save them time, trees, and their sanity.

Your trees and I thank you Ross

Might want to take a look at this then Tom.
http://www.ausbonsai.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2292&start=15

The Kitty litter sat around in water for a month or so before I got tired of topping up the water. There was no noticeable reduction in hardness. The Pine in 100% kitty litter is still going fine.
I will have to do a pH test as it seems to be a bit nutrient deficient though

Hmm someone told me pH doesn't matter????

 

[noissee]

Hmm someone told me pH doesn't matter????

I guess it depends on the species.


Anyways, I don't have a clue about Kitty Litter, but Oil Dri sucks. You can crumble it in your finger tips.

 

[bretts]

Oops missed the link
http://www.ausbonsai.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2292&start=15

 

[Cali-Mike]

I'd like to experiment with turface. I was wondering if you can buy this stuff locally in central Calif.?

 

[bonsai barry]

I've bought it at an irrigation store in Santa Maria, CA. I'm actually going to be placing an order this week. If you ever come through this area I could order you a sack or two. Also, I drive through Fresno frequently during the summer. The last time I bought it, it was about $17 for a 50 lbs. sack.

 

[Cali-Mike]

thanks Barry for the offer! If you come thru this summer i'd sure take a bag off your hands.

 

[Cali-Mike]

Irrigation supply? I was just thinking....this is Fresno for god sake. We must have an irrigation supply around here . anybody?

 

[Si Nguyen]

Hi CaliMike, Ewing lawn and irrigation supply stores carry Turface. There is one in Fresno on Ingram street, according to their website. Google it. I have used Turface for many years and I don't like it for small bonsai. It is good for loosen up the clay soil in the ground and in large pre-bonsai nursery cans. But it is not good in small pots for finished bonsai because the Turface particles are too smooth and flat and too hard so that the hair roots don't cling to the particles.
Good luck.
Si (in O.C.)

 

[jk_lewis]

Go here: http://www.turface.com/ to find a distributor near you.

I use it with all my mame bonsai. I use the fines sifted off from the rest, and about 40% rotted bark and peat.

 

[misfit11]

Hi CaliMike, Ewing lawn and irrigation supply stores carry Turface. There is one in Fresno on Ingram street, according to their website. Google it. I have used Turface for many years and I don't like it for small bonsai. It is good for loosen up the clay soil in the ground and in large pre-bonsai nursery cans. But it is not good in small pots for finished bonsai because the Turface particles are too smooth and flat and too hard so that the hair roots don't cling to the particles.
Good luck.
Si (in O.C.)

What do you use for bonsai? akadama?

 

[Si Nguyen]

What do you use for bonsai? akadama?[/QUOTE

Hi Misfit, I do use mostly akadama for small potted bonsai. I mix it with a tiny bit of lava rock or pumice to keep it from compacting too much , and some decomposed/shifted bark and leaf mold and peat for organic content. I have used 100% akadama, and before that, 100% Turface, but I don't do that any more.

For larger size bonsai in big pot and for pre-bonsai in nursery cans or in the ground, I now use mostly cactus mix. In my area, there is an Armstrong nursery that carry a good brand of cactus mix. It is mostly pumice, lava, and a little bit of small bark and minimal peat, and it is very cheap. Cheaper than any bonsai mix they sell. It does not have sewage sludge like the rest of the potting mixes like those at HomeDepot. Stay away from those. I learn of using off the shelf cactus mix from Lindsey Shiba, an old time bonsai master in Soutnern California.

One thing that I just found recently in my area is the brand of Dry Stall pumice. It is available at most horse feed and tack stores and it is very cheap. The best thing about this brand is that the particles are small, uniform, shifted, and washed already. It will save you a lot of time. 100% pumice is the safest thing to use for everything, especially for newly bare-rooted stumps and cuttings.

 

[the bonsai kid]

I been using NAPA #8822 and its great good partical size about the same as turface and hold up to freezing its been a year and it has'nt broken down any.Its like $6 for 25lb bag

 

[jk_lewis]

The problem with Dry Stall is that it is so white.

 

[chappy56]

Just to add another wrinkle, take a look here.

http://www.hpbhaydite.com/land_uses/nursery_uses.html

I've eliminated Turface, oil dry and all the like in favor of this. Its a lot more natural looking and I'm not so sure it'll ever break down. I'm on my third year with it and find it in bulk at all the landscapers here.

 

[the bonsai kid]

once you water a few times its a orange brown color