Pyracantha Overwinter Care

fore

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I'll be interested in any answers, not sure it's ok to have the new root mass get frozen at 27F. However, last yr. I did a layer on dwarf lilac that I didn't pot up until Sept. I tried to keep it above freezing, but I can't always keep it above freezing. This is a real hardy plant, and didn't have a hick up this yr. It's growing really well. So I'm kind of thinking it'll be ok to have it hit 27F 'occasionally" for our Pyracantha's variety that thrives in our zones.

Do you have a pic of yours Chris? I'll try to get one of mine today.
 

coh

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I don't think I took any pics when I dug it up (at least, I can't find any) and right now I think all you'd be able to see would be foliage. But I will take a look, if it's worth photographing I'll try to get one sometime this weekend.

Chris
 

coh

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Chris, I took a few photos. There's not a lot to see, as I said mostly just foliage. The individual trunks are not really visible for the most part. But it is growing well, and that was the main goal for this season. All the foliage is new this season (since chopping and digging this spring).

pyracantha_001.jpg pyracantha_002.jpg pyracantha_003.jpg
 

fore

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It's a great feeling alone seeing new growth on newly collected material for sure! Looks like it's growing and thriving and good growth. What more can you asK? ;)

I had forgotten to post the pics I took the other day. Not the best, but it's somewhat deep inside and I had to hold back branches.
pyracantha.jpg

The parent tree has a trunk with a fair amount of bark damage from animals. So this had the most interesting area otherwise.
 

fore

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I took it apart this am and found tons of roots...on one side. The side that got direct western sun off the Lake. The east side, 100% shade, absolutely nothing but callous. Happy it worked, not so happy I did not get a 360 degr. roots.

Here it is potted up. The trunk is about 1.5" and now that I got it cut off, and can see it all around, I now notice some reverse taper. Darn!
pyracantha2.jpg
 

coh

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Many of my air layers tend to have more roots on one side as opposed to a nice even distribution. Did you put some more rooting hormone on the callous that didn't root? Maybe even nick it a bit with a knife, that might encourage roots.

It looks like the trunk on this splits into 3 branches at one spot, though the photo could be misleading. You might have to remove something and/or do some carving there...

Chris
 

fore

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Many of my air layers tend to have more roots on one side as opposed to a nice even distribution. Did you put some more rooting hormone on the callous that didn't root? Maybe even nick it a bit with a knife, that might encourage roots.

It looks like the trunk on this splits into 3 branches at one spot, though the photo could be misleading. You might have to remove something and/or do some carving there...

Chris

No hormone. I used the tight copper wire wrap technique. One I did last yr., w. hormone, had more roots. So my experiment this time tells me I'll be using hormone from now on.

You're exactly right, all three branches at one point. If I eventually remove two branches, they'll be leaving some big scars which would mean a lot of carving relative to the size of the tree.
 

coh

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What I meant was, when you removed the layer and found roots on only one side - what I would do is scratch up the non-rooted callous a little and apply some hormone there before potting it...that might help encourage additional root formation in that area.

Chris
 

fore

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What I meant was, when you removed the layer and found roots on only one side - what I would do is scratch up the non-rooted callous a little and apply some hormone there before potting it...that might help encourage additional root formation in that area.

Chris

Ah, great idea Chris. But I've already potted it up. But I'm pretty sure I can tilt the pot enough to expose that area, the tree's securely wired in. Because I do want to have at least half way decent nebari ;)
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Hi Fore (Chris)

I live within 40 miles of you. Near the IL-WI border. Your should be able to winter your new air layer with the rest of your hardy trees.

I have wintered 2 cultivars of Pyracantha outside, one a small leaf, the other a larger leaf cultivar. (names lost long ago) Both wintered in pots. Set on the ground under the bench, leaves piled to bury the pots, tarped all 4 sides of bench to keep out the wind. This spot is in total shade for the winter. Last winter (2012-2013) I have one night of a few hours at -15F (-26 C) though most of the winter nights were above 0 F (-18C). It was less than 5 nights that dipped below 0 F, and only the one night went below -5 F.

For temperate trees, by this I mean trees that are listed for zone 6, and colder, my experience says they all survive the roots be frozen. Actual temperatures are not a big deal. Glance at Chicago building code. Code requires sewer and water pipes to be buried below the frost line, the depth at which the ground freezes most winters. I believe building code is either 36 or 48 inches. Most trees growing in the ground have the majority of their roots in the top 36 inches of soil, feeder roots are literally in the top 10 inches, obviously their roots freeze and the trees in our landscapes survive. Freezing is not the issue. No particular temperature is the issue.

What is different about wintering a tree in a pot? Freeze - Thaw Cycling & Twig and Branch Dehydration.

The ground tends to freeze and stay frozen until spring. In a pot, it is dehydration of thawed out parts of the tree while other parts of a tree are still frozen that causes most winter kill.

The trick to winter hardiness is to minimize the freeze-thaw cycling, and dehydration during the episodes of freeze-thaw cycling that can not be avoided. Key for trees in pots is that they be in the shade during the winter. Sun can heat branches above freezing, allowing the branch to dehydrate, and if the roots are frozen, no sap will flow. So site trees in pots in the shade, I cover the bench sides with opaque painter's tarps, weighed down with cinder blocks at the bottom. This way the trees and pots freeze, and stay frozen. I will shovel a foot or two of snow over the trees when (if) we get snow. Then close the tarp again. This keeps the winter shelter cold like a beer cooler would for that week or so we get in late January or early February that warms up. The tarps keep the wind out, which also helps with preventing deydration.

Once I stopped pampering winter hardy trees, I had less trouble with trees sprouting before last frost, then having to do the in-and-out dance. I don't have a greenhouse, so if something sprouts early there is no place I can give it enough light for good growth and still protect tender new growth from freezing. It is best for everything to stay dormant until the maples and other trees in my landscape start to sprout in spring. Then eveyone moves back to the top of the bench.

For this discussion I am not talking about zone 7 or warmer growing trees. Those are more a case by case issue. For gardenia, satsuki azalea, serissa, certain bamboos, etc, I have spots for them in a cool temp light garden that stays just above freezing. But space there is at a premium, so I can only have half a dozen plants in this category.
 

fore

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Hi Fore (Chris)

I live within 40 miles of you. Near the IL-WI border. Your should be able to winter your new air layer with the rest of your hardy trees.

I have wintered 2 cultivars of Pyracantha outside, one a small leaf, the other a larger leaf cultivar. (names lost long ago) Both wintered in pots. Set on the ground under the bench, leaves piled to bury the pots, tarped all 4 sides of bench to keep out the wind. This spot is in total shade for the winter. Last winter (2012-2013) I have one night of a few hours at -15F (-26 C) though most of the winter nights were above 0 F (-18C). It was less than 5 nights that dipped below 0 F, and only the one night went below -5 F.

For temperate trees, by this I mean trees that are listed for zone 6, and colder, my experience says they all survive the roots be frozen. Actual temperatures are not a big deal. Glance at Chicago building code. Code requires sewer and water pipes to be buried below the frost line, the depth at which the ground freezes most winters. I believe building code is either 36 or 48 inches. Most trees growing in the ground have the majority of their roots in the top 36 inches of soil, feeder roots are literally in the top 10 inches, obviously their roots freeze and the trees in our landscapes survive. Freezing is not the issue. No particular temperature is the issue.

What is different about wintering a tree in a pot? Freeze - Thaw Cycling & Twig and Branch Dehydration.

The ground tends to freeze and stay frozen until spring. In a pot, it is dehydration of thawed out parts of the tree while other parts of a tree are still frozen that causes most winter kill.

The trick to winter hardiness is to minimize the freeze-thaw cycling, and dehydration during the episodes of freeze-thaw cycling that can not be avoided. Key for trees in pots is that they be in the shade during the winter. Sun can heat branches above freezing, allowing the branch to dehydrate, and if the roots are frozen, no sap will flow. So site trees in pots in the shade, I cover the bench sides with opaque painter's tarps, weighed down with cinder blocks at the bottom. This way the trees and pots freeze, and stay frozen. I will shovel a foot or two of snow over the trees when (if) we get snow. Then close the tarp again. This keeps the winter shelter cold like a beer cooler would for that week or so we get in late January or early February that warms up. The tarps keep the wind out, which also helps with preventing deydration.

Once I stopped pampering winter hardy trees, I had less trouble with trees sprouting before last frost, then having to do the in-and-out dance. I don't have a greenhouse, so if something sprouts early there is no place I can give it enough light for good growth and still protect tender new growth from freezing. It is best for everything to stay dormant until the maples and other trees in my landscape start to sprout in spring. Then eveyone moves back to the top of the bench.

For this discussion I am not talking about zone 7 or warmer growing trees. Those are more a case by case issue. For gardenia, satsuki azalea, serissa, certain bamboos, etc, I have spots for them in a cool temp light garden that stays just above freezing. But space there is at a premium, so I can only have half a dozen plants in this category.

Thanks Leo, great information! I have no garage, a backyard that has sun over 100% of the yard, and I live 2 blocks from the Lake, and so the winds are can be pretty bad on top of all that. I had no choice but to put up a overwintering, white plastic sheeting hoop house (6'x10'). I'm allowed to have one as long as it's not permanent. I line the bottom 4' sides with cardboard for extra insulation. Works as I'm able to open and close the doors to keep the temp as cold as possible during the day, at night, it's kept above freezing...most of the time. When it really gets cold and the wind kicks up, the 1500wt heater isn't able to keep things above freezing. So I'll just bring it into our basement (it's only one tree lol) on those super cold nights.
Sure wish I just had a garage lol
 

coh

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Hi Fore (Chris)

I live within 40 miles of you. Near the IL-WI border. Your should be able to winter your new air layer with the rest of your hardy trees.

I have wintered 2 cultivars of Pyracantha outside, one a small leaf, the other a larger leaf cultivar. (names lost long ago) Both wintered in pots. Set on the ground under the bench, leaves piled to bury the pots, tarped all 4 sides of bench to keep out the wind. This spot is in total shade for the winter. Last winter (2012-2013) I have one night of a few hours at -15F (-26 C) though most of the winter nights were above 0 F (-18C). It was less than 5 nights that dipped below 0 F, and only the one night went below -5 F.

For temperate trees, by this I mean trees that are listed for zone 6, and colder, my experience says they all survive the roots be frozen. Actual temperatures are not a big deal. Glance at Chicago building code. Code requires sewer and water pipes to be buried below the frost line, the depth at which the ground freezes most winters. I believe building code is either 36 or 48 inches. Most trees growing in the ground have the majority of their roots in the top 36 inches of soil, feeder roots are literally in the top 10 inches, obviously their roots freeze and the trees in our landscapes survive. Freezing is not the issue. No particular temperature is the issue.

What is different about wintering a tree in a pot? Freeze - Thaw Cycling & Twig and Branch Dehydration.

The ground tends to freeze and stay frozen until spring. In a pot, it is dehydration of thawed out parts of the tree while other parts of a tree are still frozen that causes most winter kill.

The trick to winter hardiness is to minimize the freeze-thaw cycling, and dehydration during the episodes of freeze-thaw cycling that can not be avoided. Key for trees in pots is that they be in the shade during the winter. Sun can heat branches above freezing, allowing the branch to dehydrate, and if the roots are frozen, no sap will flow. So site trees in pots in the shade, I cover the bench sides with opaque painter's tarps, weighed down with cinder blocks at the bottom. This way the trees and pots freeze, and stay frozen. I will shovel a foot or two of snow over the trees when (if) we get snow. Then close the tarp again. This keeps the winter shelter cold like a beer cooler would for that week or so we get in late January or early February that warms up. The tarps keep the wind out, which also helps with preventing deydration.

Once I stopped pampering winter hardy trees, I had less trouble with trees sprouting before last frost, then having to do the in-and-out dance. I don't have a greenhouse, so if something sprouts early there is no place I can give it enough light for good growth and still protect tender new growth from freezing. It is best for everything to stay dormant until the maples and other trees in my landscape start to sprout in spring. Then eveyone moves back to the top of the bench.

For this discussion I am not talking about zone 7 or warmer growing trees. Those are more a case by case issue. For gardenia, satsuki azalea, serissa, certain bamboos, etc, I have spots for them in a cool temp light garden that stays just above freezing. But space there is at a premium, so I can only have half a dozen plants in this category.

FWIW...I asked Bill Valavanis about over-wintering my recently dug pyracantha, and he suggested keeping it above freezing if possible. I don't know if that's just for this first winter or how he handles pyracantha every year, I'll have to ask about that later. Bill, if you see this, please let us know.

Regarding freeze concerns of tree roots...the article by Brent Walston freeze damage in woody plants is interesting.

Regarding freezing of soil...keep in mind that while the soil may freeze to a significant depth - 36 or 48 inches or even more - the actual temperature profile is nonlinear, because of the continuous source of heat available from deeper soil. So while most of the root mass may be below freezing, it will probably not be cold enough to damage the roots. Also, soil covered by grass, dead leaves, and snow is relatively insulated so it may not be as cold as you would think even in the depth of winter.

On the other hand, plants in a small pot are much more exposed to the effects of the cold, as there is less soil mass and the temperatures will drop more quickly...and the entire root mass could easily be exposed to damaging temperatures (in addition to the effects from freeze/thaw cycles).

Bottom line, I would err on the side of caution for a newly rooted pyracantha, at least for the first winter.

Chris
 

jkd2572

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I keep a thermometer in my garage that transmits to a receiver in the house so I can keep an eye on the garage storage temps. Cheap weather station device. I then have an electric heater in the garage that you can set the temperature you want to keep it at. It works for me in extreme temp dips although they don't happen here as often as where you live.
 

fore

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FWIW...I asked Bill Valavanis about over-wintering my recently dug pyracantha, and he suggested keeping it above freezing if possible. I don't know if that's just for this first winter or how he handles pyracantha every year, I'll have to ask about that later. Bill, if you see this, please let us know.

Regarding freeze concerns of tree roots...the article by Brent Walston freeze damage in woody plants is interesting.

Regarding freezing of soil...keep in mind that while the soil may freeze to a significant depth - 36 or 48 inches or even more - the actual temperature profile is nonlinear, because of the continuous source of heat available from deeper soil. So while most of the root mass may be below freezing, it will probably not be cold enough to damage the roots. Also, soil covered by grass, dead leaves, and snow is relatively insulated so it may not be as cold as you would think even in the depth of winter.

On the other hand, plants in a small pot are much more exposed to the effects of the cold, as there is less soil mass and the temperatures will drop more quickly...and the entire root mass could easily be exposed to damaging temperatures (in addition to the effects from freeze/thaw cycles).

Bottom line, I would err on the side of caution for a newly rooted pyracantha, at least for the first winter.

Chris

I agree Chris. I think it's the first yr that I have to be careful about...same with those yews. I can't let those get frozen this yr either.
 

fore

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I keep a thermometer in my garage that transmits to a receiver in the house so I can keep an eye on the garage storage temps. Cheap weather station device. I then have an electric heater in the garage that you can set the temperature you want to keep it at. It works for me in extreme temp dips although they don't happen here as often as where you live.


Ditto Jeremy. Use the same thermometer setup. I've been thinking, and may try buying some of that styrofoam insulation sheets to use on sides instead of cardboard. It might just give me that 'extra buffer' I need.
 

fore

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How long do you all wait to start fertilizing newly potted up air layers? Seems to me I can start now, but I wanted to ask.
 

fore

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Here she is nice and happy and requiring large amounts of fert to keep it green. Strange.

Pyracantha1.jpg
 

fore

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This wood is SO hard, quite surprising.
 

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