Sumo Trident Maple?

Discussion in 'New to Bonsai' started by Grackle, Aug 20, 2011.

  1. Grackle

    Grackle Seedling

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    This is my first time posting here. I picked up this trident maple stump in hopes that I might be able to turn it into a shohin sumo. It has some slight reverse taper issues from most angles except one. It's got some nasty cuts on top but I'm hoping as the years pass they'll begin to look better as it appears they had been sealed well. Just curious as to whether someone else has any ideas as to the direction of the tree that my newbie eyes are overlooking? I'm going to keep it in this gallon pot until next spring. I was thinking of attempting to make cuttings from the long shoots as I think I'll still have time as our summers are quite long in Central Texas. Any input, information, etc... would be appreciated!

    First photo is my intended front, the second is the front including the long shoots and the third is the back. The sides of the tree are where the reverse taper is most evident and if so desired, I can upload those as well.

    Thank you!
     

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  3. PaulH

    PaulH Chumono

    Messages:
    900
    Location:
    Rescue, CA
    If anyone here can help you with this it's Smoke. Maybe he'll have a plan for you.
     
  4. Smoke

    Smoke Imperial Masterpiece

    Messages:
    6,184
    Location:
    Fresno, CA
    Wow! what a nice piece of raw material just itching to be turned into something.

    I have some business to do currently so I will be back....bare with me.
     
  5. Grackle

    Grackle Seedling

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    Let me thank you in advance, Smoke, for your Trident Maple Chronicle post that I just spent the last hour reading through. Truly great information. I will keep it bookmarked so that I may use it as a reference tool in the future. I patiently await your return...
     
  6. _-ll-_

    _-ll-_ Seedling

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Let it grow for a while. I has great potential, just don't rush the process.
    _-ll-_
     
  7. Smoke

    Smoke Imperial Masterpiece

    Messages:
    6,184
    Location:
    Fresno, CA
    Before I will really do some virtual work and really get a feel with where it may go, I need a couple more pics.

    Scrape off the soil for about an inch from the base of the tree. I would like to see if there is a flare there. Many times what I thought was a great frontal view based on buying or winning a raffle or auction, was found to be inferior after a more through inspection of the base.

    Like is this instance
    The elm had a good flare which seemed to make the inverse taper seem no so "in your face". Turning the elm a little and showing the flare made the tree much better from a side that was terrible the way I purchased it.

    Also label a view 90 degrees from each side of the first view that you had chosen as a front. I want to see more of what you speak about with this reverse taper. As far as the views you have showed I don't see it readily.

    Also a good front on shot of the chop. I would like to see how what branches there are emitt from the chop area. One will have to be chosen and then a paring down of the wound will need to be done to close properly.

    Once all this is seen then we can start with a new plan.
    Best regards, Al
     
  8. Grackle

    Grackle Seedling

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    Here are the photos of the exposed base. Glad you had me do this as it definitely opens more doors. The third and fourth photos show the reverse taper that appears to be the result of the large cluster of shoots that had formed. I will post photos of the close up of the cuts in a second post below due to attachment limitations.

    Thanks for taking the time to help me with this. I appreciate it!
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Grackle

    Grackle Seedling

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    Sorry for the poor photo quality. If you'd like me to take any more or if I've missed something just let me know.

    Thanks again.


    Edit*** the third photo from the last post shows 270 degrees from the front, the second photo from this post is 180 degrees from the front, the third (from this post) is the front (as well as the first photo from the last post) and the fourth is 90 degrees from the front (this series of photos as well). Sorry for the spider-web of confusion...
     

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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2011
  10. Grackle

    Grackle Seedling

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    I realize the photos I posted last were poor not much could be gathered from them. It was difficult gaining photos of the exposed base within the lip of the pot while maintaining a distance showing the outline of the tree. I'm posting more photos with a better lighting setup and at a distance. The first photo is the presumed front and each photo a 90 degree turn from there.

    I in no way tend to rush you as I have all winter to wait.

    I did however cut back some of the tall shoots in an attempt to gather some cuttings before winter. I hope this wasn't a grievous error.
     

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  11. Smoke

    Smoke Imperial Masterpiece

    Messages:
    6,184
    Location:
    Fresno, CA
    I havn't forgot...just putting together my thoughts.....radical I say.
     
  12. buffrider

    buffrider Mame

    Messages:
    116
    Location:
    oklahoma
    Could someone direct me to this.....?
     
  13. buffrider

    buffrider Mame

    Messages:
    116
    Location:
    oklahoma
    nevermind found it....
     
  14. Grackle

    Grackle Seedling

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    Spring is approaching... Any ideas?
     
  15. Jason

    Jason Shohin

    Messages:
    439
    Location:
    Western Oregon
    I just drank three pints of beer, so keep that in mind....;)

    I'd pick one main leader. Preferably, I'd keep the most distal one on one of the two main bifurcations (the left one in your first photo looks better). If there is a leader with great character, thats better yet. Trim the rest. I'd trim back the other trunk and make sure that I used a concave cutter anywhere where the calluses might contribute to reverse taper. Then I would wait and anywhere I was trying to increase trunk diameter, I would clip and grow leaving branch collars. Anywhere I was trying to reduce diameter (in order to prevent reverse taper) I would use concave cutters and remove collars. Clip/grow...clip/grow... Then if you wanted the max height at 8-10 inches I'd grow the base to 4-5 inches (sumo). This would be faster in the ground but more controlled in a growing flat or pot. Then the next trunk sections. After that it's a matter of growing branches and "walah".....instant bonsai (3-5 growing seasons at minimum).

    So that's my take, after three pints (and a little practical experience). Now we can let Al take over....more experience, less beer theory? Anyone? Help the poor guy out...spring is knockin in Texas
     

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