Torrey Pine seeds available.

Discussion in 'Other selling (bonsai related)' started by Intriguedbybonsai, May 1, 2012.

  1. Intriguedbybonsai

    Intriguedbybonsai Chumono

    Messages:
    517
    Location:
    Escondido, CA
    Please delete.

    Please delete.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
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  3. bonsai barry

    bonsai barry Omono

    Messages:
    1,374
    Location:
    Cental Coast of California
    Being a park ranger, I would feel uncomfortable obtaining seeds that were taken from a State Reserve, especially if the tree is the rarest (meaning "endangered") pine in North America.
     
  4. Intriguedbybonsai

    Intriguedbybonsai Chumono

    Messages:
    517
    Location:
    Escondido, CA
    That is very true, but if this tree (or any rare tree) is endangered, is it not best to get more of them growing? Seeing as most of them are eaten by birds and rodents.
     
  5. mcpesq817

    mcpesq817 Omono

    Messages:
    1,454
    Location:
    VA
    I visited San Diego and the Torrey Pines area a few years ago, and I seem to recall that there were a lot of signs, postings, etc. asking people not to take cones from the area.
     
  6. rockm

    rockm Masterpiece

    Messages:
    3,729
    Location:
    Fairfax Va.
    "That is very true, but if this tree (or any rare tree) is endangered, is it not best to get more of them growing? Seeing as most of them are eaten by birds and rodents."

    Uh, you've basically committed what is probably a criminal misdemeanor offense and have been gently informed by a Park Ranger you might want to rethink your course...
    From the Torrey Pines rules list:
    "All natural or historic features are protected by state law. Do not collect pine cones. Do not pick wildflowers. They must be left to produce seed to grow new plants and as food for animals. Leave plants, animals, and rocks for the next visitor to enjoy."

    FWIW, your reasoning that the seeds are somehow better off in the hands of people is one of the biggest problems our national parks have to deal with. There are specific rules prohibiting taking such materials out of national parks. The rules have a reason and aren't meant to just incovenience you. If everyone made the same assumption as you, there would be no seeds in the park to grow...The seeds you've taken definitely won't grow there now...
     
  7. Intriguedbybonsai

    Intriguedbybonsai Chumono

    Messages:
    517
    Location:
    Escondido, CA
    You're right everyone. I've already asked an administrator to delete/lock this thread. I did not realize the harm I was causing. I would rather not make enemies at this forum, or anywhere else. I feel as if I should return the seeds I took to the park.
     
  8. Bill S

    Bill S Masterpiece

    Messages:
    2,487
    Location:
    Western Massachusetts
    Not enemies, but the people here do take the laws seriously, in most cases it is even unlawful to take rocks home from these places. You could mail them to the Parks office with an explanation, they might have a way to get them growing beter than you could. I say mail as a personal visit could turn into a long affair. Doesn't seem like there was any malintent on your part.
     
  9. milehigh_7

    milehigh_7 Omono

    Messages:
    1,971
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Like Bill says, you are no where near making enemies yet (this is a pretty forgiving bunch ;)). However they will tell you the truth, albeit unvarnished and blunt at times. Would you really want friends that did not do this for you? Kind of like telling you when your fly is down or you have a booger on your shirt. Good friends will always tell you.
     
  10. rockm

    rockm Masterpiece

    Messages:
    3,729
    Location:
    Fairfax Va.
    You're hardly an enemy. I don't think you're terrible for picking up seeds, BUT there are laws involved and ignorance of the law is not a defense in court.

    The implications of taking the seeds of an endangered species (and Torrey Pine is officially classified as such) can violate not only state and federal law, but international laws, especially if they're being distributed interstate or internationally. CITES (Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora) is specifically aimed at this kind of thing.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CITES
     
  11. Attila Soos

    Attila Soos Omono

    Messages:
    1,804
    Location:
    Los Angeles (Altadena), CA
    You can purchase young Torrey Pine nursery material at the nursery of Theodore Payne foundation, in Sun Valley, California.

    Here is the link:

    http://www.theodorepayne.org/

    They don't have it all the time, but they do sell them on and off. It also may be a faster way of developing pre-bonsai. Just give them a call and see if they have them on stock.
    Not the best subject if you ask me, the needles are way too long.
     
  12. Klytus

    Klytus Omono

    Grow them on,harvest the seeds and return those to the park.
     
  13. Attila Soos

    Attila Soos Omono

    Messages:
    1,804
    Location:
    Los Angeles (Altadena), CA
    No need to do anything. You made an honest mistake, and don't need to make a big case out of it. Taking them back to the reserve would create more awkward moments for the personnel working there. They don't need the headache.
    Mailing them to other people would add to the mistake, so don't do it.

    Just plant them, and enjoy the process.

    BTW, personal collecting, from the part of plant lovers, has never harmed nature, EVER. So, don't feel so guilty. The real harm comes from commercial endeavours, when people start removing stuff in large volumes, for commercial reasons. That's when the damage is done.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  14. Bill S

    Bill S Masterpiece

    Messages:
    2,487
    Location:
    Western Massachusetts
    Good points Attila, I'd have to agree.
     
  15. Klytus

    Klytus Omono

    Twenty years from now it could be you in the park offering tobacco to the four directions whilst exclaming,"Oh Wakan Tanka!,it was once in ignorance that i took from you,but now after these many years i return and by scattering these seeds upon the earth the cycle is complete."
     
  16. rock

    rock Mame

    Messages:
    107
    Location:
    So-Cal
    Or twenty years from now you could look at your tree and say why did I spen twenty years on a tree with needles a foot long and a difficult growth pattern.

    We have one in the Safari park collection, long hard road Wild-Animal-Park-5-27-11-212.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2012

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