Is my bonsai dead?

I brought my bonsai indoors for the past 10 days and it is looking worse every day. It mainly stayed outside since I got it, but lately, there has been a lot of rain and wind and I decided to bring it inside.


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Two months ago it looked like this
I have had it for half a year and watered it every 2 or 3 days whenever I saw that the soil became dry.
Is there anything I can do to save it or is too late?

Thanks!

Pines will not live inside. Your problems likely come from the dense soil you're using. Pines don't like a lot of moisture on their roots.

Does that piece of bamboo have a hole at the bottom for drainage?

rockm said:

Pines will not live inside. Your problems likely come from the dense soil you're using. Pines don't like a lot of moisture on their roots.

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Should I change the soil? I put it outside and tried to put it in a place where it won't get affected by wind much. Do you think it is still alive?

ShimpakuBonsai said:

Does that piece of bamboo have a hole at the bottom for drainage?

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Yes, it does. It basically came like that, I didn't change anything, just tried to water the bonsai any time it needed and that is it.

Providing your location (region/state or even country--depending on the country's size) will go a long way in providing any advice on what you should do.

Pines and conifers are well capable of withstanding wind, rain, snow and freezing temperatures. The actually require full sun, vigorous air circulation (wind). They won't survive long inside with dim lighting, extremely low humidity and still air.

The soil you're using looks to me like regular potting soil. If that's the case, it retains far too much moisture for a pine. They require free-draining inorganic soil mixes based on porous, large grained soil particles, like pumice. Here's an example



Get it back outside. Try to keep the roots from remaining soggy.

For now I wouldn't do anything except to put it outside.
Maybe a repot in spring if your tree is still alive.

rockm said:

Providing your location (region/state or even country--depending on the country's size) will go a long way in providing any advice on what you should do.

Pines and conifers are well capable of withstanding wind, rain, snow and freezing temperatures. The actually require full sun, vigorous air circulation (wind). They won't survive long inside with dim lighting, extremely low humidity and still air.

The soil you're using looks to me like regular potting soil. If that's the case, it retains far too much moisture for a pine. They require free-draining inorganic soil mixes based on porous, large grained soil particles, like pumice. Here's an example

12 Gallons Organic Conifer Bonsai Soil Mix. Juniper Plus. pH 5.8 Mix #1DFD1 (48 Dry Quarts) – Bonsai Jack ©

www.bonsaijack.com

Get it back outside. Try to keep the roots from remaining soggy.

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Location: Japan, Tokyo. The temperature is around 1 to 10 degrees, I thought it may be too cold for the bonsai, especially with all the rain and wind. I was not aware that is so resistant and that it always should stay outside.

After what you said it makes sense about why it is dying. I placed it in a place that gets light, but it is mostly indirect light as my apartment is facing northwest, and I only get around 4 hours of direct sunlight.

Understood about the soil, I will buy proper soil and try to transplant it. Should I do this as soon as possible or only after confirming that it is still alive? I placed it outside today.

Thank you very much for the help!

ShimpakuBonsai said:

For now I wouldn't do anything except to put it outside.
Maybe a repot in spring if your tree is still alive.

Click to expand...

Understood, thank you very much!

The care advice given above is very good but it matters little for this particular pine. It is dead.

lulutololo said:

Understood, thank you very much!

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Many people, when they first start with bonsai, think they are special trees that are different than trees in nature. They are not. They are just trees that are being kept in pots. They might have care requirements associated with the small pocket of soil that they are being kept in (you need to make sure the soil is good, and that there is plenty of drainage) but otherwise, if you look at that species of tree in the wild, and you provide the same environment, you will be on your way to success.

Your Japanese black pine is a very strong tree, but it needs the same conditions that those trees need in nature. It can handle the cold, but it does not do well with dramatic swings in temperature. Trees go into and come out of dormancy slowly. Early or late freezes, or sudden warm temperature in the middle of the winter, will stress the tree.

Note that we are talking about your black pine (which is a cold hardy tree). Certainly if you had a ficus or other type of tropical tree, you would want to bring it inside when the temperature got cold. You would want to give it the same climate as Okinawa

Bonsai Nut said:

Many people, when they first start with bonsai, think they are special trees that are different than trees in nature. They are not. They are just trees that are being kept in pots. They might have care requirements associated with the small pocket of soil that they are being kept in (you need to make sure the soil is good, and that there is plenty of drainage) but otherwise, if you look at that species of tree in the wild, and you provide the same environment, you will be on your way to success.

Your Japanese black pine is a very strong tree, but it needs the same conditions that those trees need in nature. It can handle the cold, but it does not do well with dramatic swings in temperature. Trees go into and come out of dormancy slowly. Early or late freezes, or sudden warm temperature in the middle of the winter, will stress the tree.

Note that we are talking about your black pine (which is a cold hardy tree). Certainly if you had a ficus or other type of tropical tree, you would want to bring it inside when the temperature got cold. You would want to give it the same climate as Okinawa

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Each comment helped me to understand more about what happened to my little pine, since I put it inside and had the AC running, the temperature was probably very drastic compared to the outside temperature. Therefore, I saw it getting worse each day but did not realize that it was my fault for bringing it inside.

Do you think it is the dead as the person above stated or there is a chance that is still alive?
I will leave it outside regardless and hope for the best.

Your pine does not look good - and when a pine looks like that it is often because the roots are compromised or dead. The top of the pine will dry out because it is not getting water from the dead roots, so you end up with a pine that looks thin and grey/green and brittle. It may recover, but probably not. However it does not hurt to set it outside and see if it will recover. Just make sure not to over-water.

Also, do not be sad for your Japanese black pine. It is only two or maybe three years old. We have been having contests on this site for people who want to grow bonsai from seed. If you want to see how much progress you can make growing a Japanese black pine tree from seed, I recommend you look at this thread:

Bonsai Nut said:

Also, do not be sad for your Japanese black pine. It is only two or maybe three years old. We have been having contests on this site for people who want to grow bonsai from seed. If you want to see how much progress you can make growing a Japanese black pine tree from seed, I recommend you look at this thread:

Ryceman3's 6yr JBP Contest Entry

And so it begins ... well, for me anyway. Being from the Southern Hemisphere I am patiently waiting for July 1, and have spent the past month or more looking for JBP seeds to work with. They are not so plentiful in this part of the world, and our quarantine laws make importing seed from overseas...

www.bonsainut.com

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I will take a look at the thread. Thank you very much for linking it!

This bonsai is/was my second one, the previous one was also a black pine, it lasted me a few months, but I probably killed it by exposing it too much to the direct light of the sun during summer. I tried to save it, but it eventually died, basically the same happened one day the leaves started to turn brown and it could not be stopped.

To take care of a bonsai all I have to do is to make sure to water it, but not overwater it, and make sure it gets sunlight, but not too much is that right? as well as make sure the soil is good and that it has plenty of drainage.

If this one dies I will probably get another one, do you have any suggestions regarding if a younger or older tree is easier or harder to take care of?
I was also thinking about just getting a bigger black pine, which I guess no longer would be considered a bonsai. Do you think it would be easier for somebody with little experience with trees like me to keep it alive?

Once again, thank you for the insightful comments!

penumbra said:

The care advice given above is very good but it matters little for this particular pine. It is dead.

Click to expand...

Thank you for letting me know!

Is there any way to confirm that is dead or it is just mostly by the way it looks?

lulutololo said:

I will take a look at the thread. Thank you very much for linking it!

This bonsai is/was my second one, the previous one was also a black pine, it lasted me a few months, but I probably killed it by exposing it too much to the direct light of the sun during summer. I tried to save it, but it eventually died, basically the same happened one day the leaves started to turn brown and it could not be stopped.

To take care of a bonsai all I have to do is to make sure to water it, but not overwater it, and make sure it gets sunlight, but not too much is that right? as well as make sure the soil is good and that it has plenty of drainage.

If this one dies I will probably get another one, do you have any suggestions regarding if a younger or older tree is easier or harder to take care of?
I was also thinking about just getting a bigger black pine, which I guess no longer would be considered a bonsai. Do you think it would be easier for somebody with little experience with trees like me to keep it alive?

Once again, thank you for the insightful comments!

Click to expand...

Pines like sun. As much as you can give them BUT, you need to make sure they don't completely dry out but also don't stay too wet which is why we recommend an open and fast draining soil for them.

A trick many of us used to learn when to water is do the chopstick method. Take a wooden chopstick and stick it in the pot and leave it there. Pull it out once a day and look at it. Water then tree when the chopstick is almost dry but not totally dry.

I would suggest that you continue with inexpensive seedlings until you learn to keep one live for a couple of years. The basic care to keep them alive is the same for young/small vs old/large.

Japanese Black Pine can take as much sun as you can give them. The more sun the better!

The secret to watering is to have good soil. If you have good soil it is almost impossible to over-water. When I was keeping Japanese black pines in Southern California, they would get watered twice per day in the summer (because it was hot and very dry). But if your soil is good, the water goes in the top of the soil, and any excess immediately comes out the bottom of the pot - leaving wet soil but still plenty of open space and plenty of air in the soil. What you want to avoid is having wet, organic, compact soil like a swamp. Roots need oxygen to survive, and if your soil is compact and wet, the roots will drown.

Now that I live in North Carolina I have to be much more careful about watering my trees, because we get much more rain here, and the air is much more humid. The trees need much less water when the air is humid. Sometimes I will not need to water my trees for two weeks or more. After keeping trees for a while you learn how to look at them and know if they need water. Or in many cases, I simply lift the pot and I can tell if they need water by how heavy the pot is.

lulutololo said:

I will take a look at the thread. Thank you very much for linking it!

This bonsai is/was my second one, the previous one was also a black pine, it lasted me a few months, but I probably killed it by exposing it too much to the direct light of the sun during summer. I tried to save it, but it eventually died, basically the same happened one day the leaves started to turn brown and it could not be stopped.

To take care of a bonsai all I have to do is to make sure to water it, but not overwater it, and make sure it gets sunlight, but not too much is that right? as well as make sure the soil is good and that it has plenty of drainage.

If this one dies I will probably get another one, do you have any suggestions regarding if a younger or older tree is easier or harder to take care of?
I was also thinking about just getting a bigger black pine, which I guess no longer would be considered a bonsai. Do you think it would be easier for somebody with little experience with trees like me to keep it alive?

Once again, thank you for the insightful comments!

Click to expand...

Pines and conifers require extremely high light, as much sunlight as they can get. Your first tree likely had the same watering issues this one has--the soil is key to successful bonsai. It must DRAIN, FAST for pines and conifers. In dense potting soil as pictured roots stay wet. Wet roots rot. Dead roots cannot transport nutrients and moisture up to foliage. The symptoms of overwatering and underwatering are the same, since in both instances, the roots are not functioning.

Most bonsai problems boil down to root issues. Learning to water properly in the correct soil are two of the biggest obstacles for beginners. Watering can take years to learn. You have to know when the tree needs water, which changes season to season, and even day to day depending on weather conditions outside.

Caring for younger and older trees requires different approaches. For beginners, younger trees tend to be better since they tend to be more vigorous. BTW, black pines really aren't easy first time trees. Deciduous trees, such as elm or maple, tend to be more forgiving. Chinese elm, in particular, is extremely tough and forgiving.

Bonsai come in many sizes, including extra large, over 4" tall. This white pine, which came to America from Japan 50 years ago, is over five feet tall. It depends on what you want and what you can care for. Your pine would be considered roughly a "Shohin" sized tree, under 10 inches tall. That is a small sized category, although the categories used in bonsai have no real parameters.

Paradox said:

Pines like sun. As much as you can give them BUT, you need to make sure they don't completely dry out but also don't stay too wet which is why we recommend an open and fast draining soil for them.

A trick many of us used to learn when to water is do the chopstick method. Take a wooden chopstick and stick it in the pot and leave it there. Pull it out once a day and look at it. Water then tree when the chopstick is almost dry but not totally dry.

I would suggest that you continue with inexpensive seedlings until you learn to keep one live for a couple of years. The basic care to keep them alive is the same for young/small vs old/large.

Click to expand...

Noted the chopstick trick, it will be very useful. Thank you!

Bonsai Nut said:

Japanese Black Pine can take as much sun as you can give them. The more sun the better!

The secret to watering is to have good soil. If you have good soil it is almost impossible to over-water. When I was keeping Japanese black pines in Southern California, they would get watered twice per day in the summer (because it was hot and very dry). But if your soil is good, the water goes in the top of the soil, and any excess immediately comes out the bottom of the pot - leaving wet soil but still plenty of open space and plenty of air in the soil. What you want to avoid is having wet, organic, compact soil like a swamp. Roots need oxygen to survive, and if your soil is compact and wet, the roots will drown.

Now that I live in North Carolina I have to be much more careful about watering my trees, because we get much more rain here, and the air is much more humid. The trees need much less water when the air is humid. Sometimes I will not need to water my trees for two weeks or more. After keeping trees for a while you learn how to look at them and know if they need water. Or in many cases, I simply lift the pot and I can tell if they need water by how heavy the pot is.

Click to expand...

Understood. Thank you!
I usually would just check with my finger to see if the above soil is dry and that is when I would water it.
I leave my bonsai on the balcony, so if it rains it will get all the water from the rain, should I put it inside for that time or just try to cover it somehow?