M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
I thought you smelled that way for another reason.
The "Rules" of bonsai
- Thread starter Adair M
- Start date
Grouper,
Can you verify something I heard about Dan's teachings? I heard that he doesn't advocate repotting bonsai. Ever. The idea is sure, the tree gets potbound. And some roots eventually die off. But that's ok, the dead roots eventually become organic matter to feed new roots!
You apparently know him well. Is what I just wrote an accurate portrail of Dan's potting approach or did someone just make that up?
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Sifu,
a friend down here tried that with a Yaupon, and after it filled the styro grape packing box, it almost died.
Had to start over with a new shape.
Good Day
Anthony
a friend down here tried that with a Yaupon, and after it filled the styro grape packing box, it almost died.
Had to start over with a new shape.
Good Day
Anthony
MACH5
Imperial Masterpiece
Well not true. Two years ago at the 4th US National, I walked away with a big one, winning best deciduous tree. Previously to exhibiting there, I had no experience showing trees or even any connections to anyone in the "inner circle". I did not have the tree prepared by a professional either. Like the vast majority of folks here, I am an amateur. So it can definitely happen for anyone. Of course you better show up with nothing less than your 'A' game.
Attachments
Solange
Shohin
You are so full of it Adair.
About what are you referring?
LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
If it's one thing, it's hot pine knowledge!!
I'm not gonna' let you walk around with your hands in your pockets, kickin' the dirt at your feet around...
Ha!!! Maybe when they used to have "amateurs" in the Olympics!!!!Seriously, can't understand the animosity. Rules usually come about because people figured out what looks better thru trial and error.
Very few people can re-invent the wheel, and it's rather arrogant to think that you can. Not that you shouldn't try, but that's why I love doing this.....it's so very humbling.....
Solange
Shohin
Your baiting, didactic posts claiming otherwise which are full of arbitrary, constantly shifting, conditional counter arguments. The title of this thread should be "It depends (as long as Adair is always right)". Clearly this is less a conversation than a chance for you to spout from your pulpit once again. Why create a thread that states a position of ambiguity and free thought and then in the course of discussion pursue a definition that is singularly in step with your own beliefs by questioning others opinions and exclaiming your virtues? Bullshit.
watchndsky
Chumono
Well, ok, I'm sure you're right. Whatever it is you said.
Is there a particular "rule" or "guideline" or "convention" that you'd like to discuss?
I created this thread in part because there was another member here who constantly complained that I had "too many rules". And perhaps I do. But when giving advice I generally advise according to the "rules" whenever possible.
I've been doing bonsai longer than most members here. There are constantly new people coming to the site. So, I try to stay consistent. And follow the rules.
Sorry to be so full of it!
Because I'm usually right you know! Lol!!!
So anyway....back to the rules thing, I believe it's very important to have a thorough understanding of the rules - and even that can take more than a decade - before you can walk away from them. Designing a tree strictly according to rules can only lead to one thing - clones. It is only after you start to picture an image in your own mind rather than someone else's that you enter the realm of art. Some things can never really be dispensed with. For example, In all but formal upright the apex of the tree should lean slightly toward the viewer - always. The rule of triangular outline is something I'm still not convinced about. Most trees seem to have one, however obtuse that may be, but some such as in African Acacia, you would be hard pressed to find the triangle. Same goes for some really wild wind-swept forms. Another good rule that should be adhered to is some kind of trunk taper. There are some examples of Japanese Red Pine which have very little to no taper and to frank, they don't quite make it to me.
The 1-2-3 branch arrangement is in my opinion completely dispensable. What is important is depth created by front and back branches. The rule of the main branch starting 1/3 up the trunk is also unnecessary. In fact holding on the idea that there just MUST under any circumstances be a main branch can lead to more carbon copy type trees (especially in conifers). As long as there is variety in thickness and length, there will always be one branch slightly more dominant than the others. It doesn't HAVE to be the lowest. In some old Cedrus, it can be one of the highest! The rules are helpful but are made to be broken. But you can only break something if you posses it.
The 1-2-3 branch arrangement is in my opinion completely dispensable. What is important is depth created by front and back branches. The rule of the main branch starting 1/3 up the trunk is also unnecessary. In fact holding on the idea that there just MUST under any circumstances be a main branch can lead to more carbon copy type trees (especially in conifers). As long as there is variety in thickness and length, there will always be one branch slightly more dominant than the others. It doesn't HAVE to be the lowest. In some old Cedrus, it can be one of the highest! The rules are helpful but are made to be broken. But you can only break something if you posses it.
Actually after checking Google, They still seem to have VERY broad triangular outline.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...hUKEwjlq_Xll_zPAhWMnpQKHdk6AsQQsAQIKg#imgrc=_
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...hUKEwjlq_Xll_zPAhWMnpQKHdk6AsQQsAQIKg#imgrc=_
Or, a triangle standing on a point!
Of course, there can be exceptions yo the rules. That may be one. Flat top Bald Cypress are another.
All rules "are made to be broken". And have exceptions:
"I before E except after C..."
Steve Kudela
Shohin
For me, the key is flexibility with the rules as others have already stated. The best example I could give would be one I've given before. In Kokufu 63, I think page 18, is an old Japanese maple given the designation " important Japanese masterpiece", if you study, really study it, you will find that it has many rule breakers. If you remove even one of them, the tree is ruined. This particular tree is the most beautiful Japanese maple that I have ever seen. I also so have a number of trees that have a back branch as first branch. I would not like at all if someone removed them. One of those trees is my big beech. It's on here somewhere. Anyway, please learn the rules and then in time with lots of practice, begin to see things around the rules. Just my little bitty thought
wireme
Masterpiece
I have a bunch of dream designs in my head. Top of the list is a big straight western larch, fat no taper. A bit of base flair would be good. The trees get big, they get old, they get heartrot and they break midway at a point of large diameter. Then often they become hollow, a very important ecological species hosting cavity dwelling critters. I want to copy them, if I ever pull it off I'll bet you like it. Western Cedars do the same thing with a bit more taper usually. I have a few dream designs that are fat and non tapered, maybe hollow or not, some with stubby broken braches barely clinging to life. That brings me to another thing. Top Jinns on conifers, I'd like to see more left full diameter and hollowed rather than carved to a tapering point, not all trees and all conifers but some. I'm with you on your comment about pines, I'd like to see more exploration of upwards branches too especially in the upper portions of the tree. Another one I really want to do when or if the right material comes around is flat topped conifers, it's not only BC that do that, nearly all the very old ponderosa pine and Doug fir that I see get flat tops. Flat tops and multiple leaders in the crowns, I'd like to see more of that, multiple upwards jinns up there too, why not?
It's fun to dream.
Edit, just added pics of a western larch I visited a couple days ago. Not exactly the dream tree, but classic break at the top and pretty classic form. The taper in the pic is distortion from using the pano feature on the phone, they have incredible tall and fat non tapering trunks. This guy is 6' across at the base, many hundreds of years old. It's in the middle of an old clear cut, the only reason it's still there is that the loggers could tell it had heartrot and was useless for lumber.
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coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Adair, I see you've inspired your fan club with this thread (grouper, solange, sk, maybe others?)
So why not style it like a deciduous tree - a maple or hornbeam or oak (think how many boxwoods are styled)?
You've used this type of argument before. In another thread you were talking about how JBP shouldn't have deadwood features because in their native environment, they don't. But...who...cares? You can style any tree species in any manner you like. Deciduous trees are shaped like pines all the time. So why not style a JBP like a high mountain pine with deadwood features? Maybe you lose one of the main benefits of JBP that way (the bark), but perhaps a particular piece of material would look best that way...maybe something with a skinny trunk with lots of movement.
So why not style it like a deciduous tree - a maple or hornbeam or oak (think how many boxwoods are styled)?
You've used this type of argument before. In another thread you were talking about how JBP shouldn't have deadwood features because in their native environment, they don't. But...who...cares? You can style any tree species in any manner you like. Deciduous trees are shaped like pines all the time. So why not style a JBP like a high mountain pine with deadwood features? Maybe you lose one of the main benefits of JBP that way (the bark), but perhaps a particular piece of material would look best that way...maybe something with a skinny trunk with lots of movement.
I too have many trees with a back branch as the lowest. That's one of the exceptions to the rules!
