Mound Juniper discussion

Gunstock

Gunstock

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OK this is my first thread here so don't worry I'll figure it out.
I put my beginners experience, background and stuff in my profile if there is a way to see it.
And there is a resource article for this tree on the bottom of the post.
I also would like to find better resource articles on this subject as well before I touch anything on this tree if someone has any feel free to let me know. I want one with more contrast and in depth than the one I shared.
Ahh...I have posted 4 pics of my next tree I got fully trained/established from a Greenhouse.
  1. front
  2. back
  3. left side
  4. right side
And I'm new to all this like I already said, and want some feedback from people that has had more experience at this than myself.
First off, I can tell you from what I've read the trunk is leaning in the wrong direction. That's how it was potted I guess or it settled and moved during shipment. But other than that the very small & light brown spots on the top are disappearing and looking better and fading after just a few days. And I'm not removing the soil from the pot and try to lean the trunk in the other direction yet because it is still acclimating and is a fresh pot of soil, maybe next year or something like that. So should I have asked if the plant weighed 21 pounds when shipped but that's how it is.?! And the real downer is there is no apex/secondary branch the size of the trunk.
This "Moyohgi" shape has lots of established branch's for pruning and wiring so the roots are well established too. The pot is in the Ishitzuki style replica category this is what I've read someplace anyway.
And I have no idea why my pc uploaded 8 pics when there are only 4 pics and 1 hyperlink. Sorry about that :)
IM000917Frontcopy.jpg




IM000917Frontcopy.jpg IM000919Lsidecopy.jpg
IM000920Rsidecopy.jpg IM000917Frontcopy.jpg IM000918Backcopy.jpg IM000919Lsidecopy.jpg IM000920Rsidecopy.jpg
resource article:
http://www.bonsaimalta.org/resources/lectures/04_ch.pdf
 
Moyohogi? Ishitsuki... Tree is leaning the "wrong" way? Secondary branches/ apex as big as the trunk?

I'd be interested to learn where you got all that from! LOL

Seems like you are putting the cart before the horse a bit..

Where are you keeping it? Does the pot provide sufficient drainage? Is there anything glued to the surface of the soil?
 
Gunstock said:
there is no apex/secondary branch the size of the trunk.
This "Moyohgi" shape has lots of established branch's for pruning and wiring so the roots are well established too. The pot is in the Ishitzuki style replica category this is what I've read someplace anyway
Click to expand...
Forget about all of this. You're just confusing yourself. And me.
Keep it in a sunny spot outside and let it get acclimated to where it now lives. Enjoy it just how it is for now. Learn how to take care of it and keep it alive.
 
Eric Group said:
Moyohogi? Ishitsuki... Tree is leaning the "wrong" way? Secondary branches/ apex as big as the trunk? The sales picture shows the trunk dividing into 2 apex branchs, both the same thickness as the trunk. You won't find a blog, on the internet describing the Asian art of bonsai that doesn't detail the trunk leaning the opposite direction from the first bend.

I'd be interested to learn where you got all that from! LOL You'd probably put it in the cart right. LOL I've never been a fan of euphemism.

Seems like you are putting the cart before the horse a bit..

Where are you keeping it? Does the pot provide sufficient drainage? Is there anything glued to the surface of the soil? I didn't say anything was dropping off the branchs.
Click to expand...
 
Well all the aritcles I've read describe the styles in detail without leaving much out. They are confusing sometimes. I found a new resource here with a similar pic of a juniper http://www.bonsaiempire.com/blog/losing-leaves and here http://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/juniper
And the idea is to keep the miniature tree alive and in a small pot. LOL This one is 20"tall and weighs 20 lbs. so if you were in my shoes you would start and wonder what happens next too. I like small miniature trees more than tall ones.
What I want to do is make a couple of cuttings to plant, and find the courage to start trimming the pads without messing it up! Pictures of this transition would really be good, but where are they? I watched the tutorial #1 2# and #3 on how to do it here.
Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with this tree. Except the common things I've noticed about it. If I really want to be critical about it resources say there should not be branch's on the outside or inside of the bends on the main branch.
So, to make it clear I read that duplicating the environment to suit the tree species is possible if it's done right. And I don't have the space in a yard to keep the tree outside year round and it may end up going in a refrigerator during dormancy.
It doesn't actually even need to go outside during the summer IMO, my apt. is so humid, sunny, and breezy. But I had the space at least do that part right.
Where I live humidity is the message of the day year round, breezy and humid in spring, summer, and fall, scorching humid temps in summer, and ice storms in winter. Anything outside in winter will be crushed by falling ice.
This is what you deal with having humid summers and cold winters every year. The low lake in the valley across the street and the wet swamplands in back has something to do with it.
The thing is the soil looks custom blended, compared to the premix bags I buy from the same nursery. There's lots of black moist dirt compared to the dry brown premix bag.
 
Gunstock said:
Well all the aritcles I've read describe the styles in detail without leaving much out. They are confusing sometimes. I found a new resource here with a similar pic of a juniper http://www.bonsaiempire.com/blog/losing-leaves and here http://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/juniper
And the idea is to keep the miniature tree alive and in a small pot. LOL This one is 20"tall and weighs 20 lbs. so if you were in my shoes you would start and wonder what happens next too. I like small miniature trees more than tall ones.
What I want to do is make a couple of cuttings to plant, and find the courage to start trimming the pads without messing it up! Pictures of this transition would really be good, but where are they? I watched the tutorial #1 2# and #3 on how to do it here.
Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with this tree. Except the common things I've noticed about it. If I really want to be critical about it resources say there should not be branch's on the outside or inside of the bends on the main branch.
So, to make it clear I read that duplicating the environment to suit the tree species is possible if it's done right. And I don't have the space in a yard to keep the tree outside year round and it may end up going in a refrigerator during dormancy.
It doesn't actually even need to go outside during the summer IMO, my apt. is so humid, sunny, and breezy. But I had the space at least do that part right.
Where I live humidity is the message of the day year round, breezy and humid in spring, summer, and fall, scorching humid temps in summer, and ice storms in winter. Anything outside in winter will be crushed by falling ice.
This is what you deal with having humid summers and cold winters every year. The low lake in the valley across the street and the wet swamplands in back has something to do with it.
The thing is the soil looks custom blended, compared to the premix bags I buy from the same nursery. There's lots of black moist dirt compared to the dry brown premix bag.
Click to expand...

This is why I was asking where you keep it. This tree WILL DIE if kept indoors. Period. Do not try to convince yourself otherwise. It might live for 6 months or so.. Maybe even a year, but there is no way to successfully duplicate outdoor conditions for a long period of time indoors and without proper light, air circulation, humidity... This will be a crispy critter soon. Dormancy is not as important for this as it would be for saaayyyyy a Maple or something like that, they can handle cold just fine but Procumbens Nana (your variety of Juniper), Parsons, San Jose... Junipers do not necessarily NEED dormancy and can even survive in more tropical areas like Flordia without issue. They are pretty touchy about where they are kept though it seems and OUTSIDE in a lot of sun is what they like. Without it the tree will die.

"If I really want to be critical about it resources say there should not be branch's on the outside or inside of the bends on the main branch."
False. Branches on the INSIDE of curves= generally bad, branches on outside= just fine/ preferred. That is why I made the comment about "where you got all that from"- the terms you tried to use were all wrong, the info you are repeating is misinterpreted and you seem to be just dead sure these things are facts... Reading is good, but it is EASY to get confused just reading. You should find others in your area who are into bonsai and see if they can show you what they do, what their trees look like... Spend time looking at pics of good bonsai and figure out why they are good and yours is.... A cutting in a fake rock pot.

Not being mean or rude, just being honest as you seem genuinely interested in learning more. No amount of me telling you what you said is "wrong" is going to help, you need someone to show you what is right so you can figure it out for yourself.

Good luck! Please find a place outside to keep this tree so it will have a shot to live.
 
Gunstock said:
Well all the aritcles I've read describe the styles in detail without leaving much out. They are confusing sometimes. I found a new resource here with a similar pic of a juniper http://www.bonsaiempire.com/blog/losing-leaves and here http://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/juniper
And the idea is to keep the miniature tree alive and in a small pot. LOL This one is 20"tall and weighs 20 lbs. so if you were in my shoes you would start and wonder what happens next too. I like small miniature trees more than tall ones.
What I want to do is make a couple of cuttings to plant, and find the courage to start trimming the pads without messing it up! Pictures of this transition would really be good, but where are they? I watched the tutorial #1 2# and #3 on how to do it here.
Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with this tree. Except the common things I've noticed about it. If I really want to be critical about it resources say there should not be branch's on the outside or inside of the bends on the main branch.
So, to make it clear I read that duplicating the environment to suit the tree species is possible if it's done right. And I don't have the space in a yard to keep the tree outside year round and it may end up going in a refrigerator during dormancy.
It doesn't actually even need to go outside during the summer IMO, my apt. is so humid, sunny, and breezy. But I had the space at least do that part right.
Where I live humidity is the message of the day year round, breezy and humid in spring, summer, and fall, scorching humid temps in summer, and ice storms in winter. Anything outside in winter will be crushed by falling ice.
This is what you deal with having humid summers and cold winters every year. The low lake in the valley across the street and the wet swamplands in back has something to do with it.
The thing is the soil looks custom blended, compared to the premix bags I buy from the same nursery. There's lots of black moist dirt compared to the dry brown premix bag.
Click to expand...

Just to quote the article you linked above:
"Outdoor Bonsai need to be kept outside, year round. Typical outdoor Bonsai species include the Juniper and the Chinese Elm. .
 
Eric Group said:
Just to quote the article you linked above:
"Outdoor Bonsai need to be kept outside, year round. Typical outdoor Bonsai species include the Juniper and the Chinese Elm. .
Click to expand...
Careful, Eric! You're beginning to sound like me!

Frustrating, isn't it? You want to help, you know they're clueless, so you give advice. They come back with even more arguments about how "this one is different", or how, "I can rig this or that up...", or they refer to some obscure Internet post that says they can do it...

Problem is, they don't want to hear it. It doesn't matter they've never seen a real bonsai...

Alas... It doesn't matter. In six months this tree will be brown and crispy. Maybe by then Gunstock will learn that if he wants to grow a tree inside he will have success with ficus. Maybe not.

I does make for amusing reading, however!
 
Eric Group said:
Just to quote the article you linked above:
"Outdoor Bonsai need to be kept outside, year round. Typical outdoor Bonsai species include the Juniper and the Chinese Elm. .
Click to expand...
Right the first elm I got 2 yrs. ago survived those 2 yrs. when I wasn't to knowledgeable about dormancy. So when I read 1 article says they don't require special conditions another 1 says it will for 2 years and die. I'm waiting for it to do something lol. Some days the bark looks white an some days it looks green.
 
@Gunstock
These are knowledgable dudes...
Don't get discouraged.

"The cart before the horse" yes.

Also, "the bullets before the gun" like we relinquish our weapons!

Sssssssssso....

Let these fellers wipe that old lingo clean off your slate....
We going have some fun and make that
Letter, My letter!

A tree!

Sorce
 
Gunstock said:
Right the first elm I got 2 yrs. ago survived those 2 yrs. when I wasn't to knowledgeable about dormancy. So when I read 1 article says they don't require special conditions another 1 says it will for 2 years and die. I'm waiting for it to do something lol. Some days the bark looks white an some days it looks green.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you're pretty serious about bonsai.
 
I hear the ambiguous thoughts on how to grow Bonsai and read it even more in each outside the forum resource article. They all try to give the help some one is looking for and still leave an impression. So with that said it's pretty hard to retain the info, when you know the next resource will say it in a different format. "But if you really think about it it's actually really easy." As long as confusion isn't a barrier! My Juniper is outside again today even though it's sunny but cold (54°). They told me it's a hardy plant so the cold shouldn't harm it as long as it's in bright sun. I don't plan on cutting it yet as it's not really the growing season yet. And I won't have the tools and wire until May. So I can wire anytime of year but not pruning correct?
 
Gunstock said:
I hear the ambiguous thoughts on how to grow Bonsai and read it even more in each outside the forum resource article. They all try to give the help some one is looking for and still leave an impression. So with that said it's pretty hard to retain the info, when you know the next resource will say it in a different format. "But if you really think about it it's actually really easy." As long as confusion isn't a barrier! My Juniper is outside again today even though it's sunny but cold (54°). They told me it's a hardy plant so the cold shouldn't harm it as long as it's in bright sun. I don't plan on cutting it yet as it's not really the growing season yet. And I won't have the tools and wire until May. So I can wire anytime of year but not pruning correct?
Click to expand...


Does any of this or anything else the OP has said make any sense to anyone? I think taking about 100 steps back is a good start, next I would concentrate on finding a home that has an outdoor area to create a garden. You will spend more money and time fighting indoor growing than anything else associated with 'doing bonsai'. I would also find other people that actually own and grow bonsai to talk to instead of the internet. In Mass you have New England Bonsai Garden - GO THERE!
 
Welcome to the forums and to the addiction

New England Bonsai Gardens in Bellingham, Mass. Excellent folks and it will be an eye opener for you.
https://nebonsai.com/

They have workshops with good people. You will learn a lot and you will see WWAAAYY better trees that this little juniper.
Speaking of which, I hate to tell you but this little tree is a typical cheap "mallsai" "bonsai" sold to inexperienced people that dont know any better. They typically tell you it is an indoor tree because newbies are all "but I want to be able to see my cute little bonsai 24/7"
This is a juniper procumbens nana and it is not an indoor tree. The pot frankly is horrid and if it does not have a drain hole, is drowning your tree. Its in an "S" shape which for reasons I can not comprehend, people think bonsai should be shaped as...

Its OK, you've come to the right place. Lots of good knowledgeable folks here, even if we do get a bit salty at times.
Dont give up but please put some time into doing some basic reading and go visit New England Bonsai Garderns, take the beginners class. You'll be glad you did!
 
Three things I hate in bonsai:

1. Stupid artificial looking S shaped trunks with no taper

2. Goofy little mudmen/figurines

3. Goofy looking pots that aim to look like they're not pots at all but some kind of landscape


Seriously though, don't get discouraged, Gunstock. New England Bonsai Gardens is a good resource like Paradox said. If you stick with it, in a year or two you'll look back and this juniper with amusement. Look up some picture of juniper bonsai and compare it to your plant to see what differences you can spot.

Th two best online resources I've found to read up on bonsai are:

http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/articles.htm

Http://www.bonsai4me.com
 
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