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bonhe

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Bonhe,
Looks like they are ready to pop. I have a feeling it will happen before Tet unless the weather is somewhat cooler in the next couple weeks. Very nice tree.
Thank you Namnhi. It will bloom prior to Tet, but I am sure that I still see its flowers that time! :)
Bonhe
 

MichaelS

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bonhe, post: 411791, member: 2571"
MichaelS gave us his observation. It will not happen at all time. Well, it depends on the time you do it. It is why we call “critical time”. If you remember, floral primordia appear in buds only when a critical number of nodes has formed. By that, if you prune the branch soon enough, you will get vegetative buds. I am very close in marking down this critical time in my area.

So if I pinch the soft growth, say when I get 3 leaves, are saying that I will not get flower buds forming? I hope so because I don't want flowers really. I am more interested in ramifying the tree. Every year I get tons of flowers but once they are finished, finding vegetative buds is not so easy. It's one step forward and one back mostly.
Defoliating helps to force new buds but a lot of the resulting branches dies back after flowering for me. This year I have removed the first 2 leaves from the first new branches, let them grow long, then prune them and defoliate, then, with the second flush, I also removed the first 2 leaves (when they are quite soft and small) and this second growth is now over 12 inches long and still growing....
 

Adair M

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So if I pinch the soft growth, say when I get 3 leaves, are saying that I will not get flower buds forming? I hope so because I don't want flowers really. I am more interested in ramifying the tree. Every year I get tons of flowers but once they are finished, finding vegetative buds is not so easy. It's one step forward and one back mostly.
Defoliating helps to force new buds but a lot of the resulting branches dies back after flowering for me. This year I have removed the first 2 leaves from the first new branches, let them grow long, then prune them and defoliate, then, with the second flush, I also removed the first 2 leaves (when they are quite soft and small) and this second growth is now over 12 inches long and still growing....
After defoliation, Did you get new shoots from where the leaves had been removed earlier?
 

bonhe

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MichaelS, So if I pinch the soft growth, say when I get 3 leaves, are saying that I will not get flower buds forming?
Thanks for asking.
Yes, it should be that way. But if you remember, the auxin can also be produced from the tip of the leaves. It is why Adair M talked about the technique of removing the first few leaves to get floral primordial. I did not pay attention to this problem until one year ago. This year I will do more test and find out. I am planning to pinch the soft growth like you said, then make 2 samples:
1. just cut the tip of the remaining leaves off.
2. Defoliate all 3 leaves.
I have a prebonsai young healthy ume with multiple shoots which I can do experiment on it :)


Defoliating helps to force new buds but a lot of the resulting branches dies back after flowering for me.
It is understandable. When we defoliated, we lost energy factories right there. It is why instead of defoliating, just cut the tip of the leaves off (It is my hypothesis :))

This year I have removed the first 2 leaves from the first new branches, let them grow long, then prune them and defoliate, then, with the second flush, I also removed the first 2 leaves (when they are quite soft and small) and this second growth is now over 12 inches long and still growing
wow, it is very crazy! It is really hard for me to have my ume give 2nd growth in one season. It may be I did not prune it back soon enough.
Please update information. Thanks MichaelS.
Bonhe
 

Adair M

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yep, as well as other places further up.
Michael,

It is my understanding that if you defoliate, you won't get flowers the following winter. It sounds like you are getting more ramification.

The technique I use, pulling the first two leaves, builds ramification slowly over the years, but still allows for flowers. Also, letting the shoots run allows the roots to grow and keep the tree healthy.

The pinching method removes the auxin factories. Auxin is the hormone that stimulates the roots to grow. So, pinching early means there's no auxin, which translates to little root growth. Which means it becomes weaker and weaker.

My method let's the shoots run. I get good root growth. Then, I cut back on the shoot to about half its new growth, and remove the first two leaves. No flowers on those nodes, but I should get some where the leaves remain. I wire the shoots at this time, too.

In a month to six weeks, the shoots have lignified, so the wire is removed. Late fall, I remove the leaves. Also, cut back a bit now that I can see all the buds.

In winter, enjoy the flowers. When the flowers fade, cut back all the stems, leaving only the two buds where I had pulled the leaves off. Yes, most of the stem that I had wired back in the summer gets cut off!
 

MichaelS

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Adair M, post: 415487, member: 13405"

It is my understanding that if you defoliate, you won't get flowers the following winter. It sounds like you are getting more ramification.

But I get plenty flowers, too much in fact! On the first growth and on the second growth.

As I said, it may have to do with the variety. They were grown from seed, but the seed came from heavy flowering ''commercial'' varieties.
I will post a pic or 2 at some point.
 

bonhe

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Adair M,
The pinching method removes the auxin factories. Auxin is the hormone that stimulates the roots to grow. So, pinching early means there's no auxin, which translates to little root growth. Which means it becomes weaker and weaker.

It is not! If you remember, cytokinin stimulates the root elongation, and auxin stimulates the lateral root development. So, if the auxin amount is reduced in the roots, cytokinin takes over.
Besides, if you pinch the tip off, but still leave a lot of leaves there, the leaves are still able to produce quite a bit of auxin. That means if you pinch and defoliate all leaves at the same time, the tree will be in trouble.

That is a reason I will perform some experiment this year.
Bonhe
 

bonhe

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But I get plenty flowers, too much in fact! On the first growth and on the second growth.

As I said, it may have to do with the variety. They were grown from seed, but the seed came from heavy flowering ''commercial'' varieties.
I will post a pic or 2 at some point.
Please let me see the flower. Thanks
Bonhe
 

bonhe

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You spelled Lovely wrong....:p
Oh oh! :)
There were few more flowers coming this afternoon.
For me, I love to watch the flowers and the tree when there are scattered flowers. It will become boring when the tree is full of flowers. I think the literati principle is also applied for flower or fruit density.
3.png

"Virgin"
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Bonhe
 
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