New to jbp

[drew33998]

I purchased a started jbp because I'm wanting to venture into that side of things. Treebay purchase. It was in a 4 inch plastic pot. When I slipped it out of the pot I didn't notice very many roots circling the root ball. Since I am wanting to grow this out I slip potted it into a bigger terra cotta pot. My question is what should I do this year. I am studying the tree to find the next trunk section and identifying what I want to be the sacrifice. Aside from that do you candle cut on the part of the tree that will be the eventual bonsai? Not sure I should do anything this year except let it recover. Thanks

 

[Nybonsai12]

I can't really offer direct advice on your tree but, Check out Brian Van fleets ebook on JBP, color photos, detailed calendar of work, well worth it. Search sacrifice branch here on Bnut. Good on you for getting into the pine game.

 

[drew33998]

Can you post a link to BVF's e-book? I know I have seen it in threads but I cant remember. Also I have been following the "A few seedlings 6 years later" to get some information.

 

[Nybonsai12]

http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/invited/776eede4f8f87f62ce9fa477c1a2e5f367619e82

 

[Adair M]

How big of a tree do you want?

Once you start decandling, the trunk stops thickening.

 

[zelk]

I am pretty inexperienced myself but this lecture by Ryan Neil helped me a lot! It is very informative, hope it helps.

 

[drew33998]

How big of a tree do you want?

Once you start decandling, the trunk stops thickening.

I do want it a little larger. Just wasn't sure if I didn't cut the candles if the growth would get out of proportion. The first branch on the left is already thick with no taper. Prob finished height of 15"

 

[drew33998]

I am pretty inexperienced myself but this lecture by Ryan Neil helped me a lot! It is very informative, hope it helps.

Yea I love all of his lectures and demos. He has some awesome stuff in his website too

 

[qwade]

Not sure I should do anything this year except let it recover

Yes
Thats what I would do. Let it get accustomed to its new home.

 

[aframe]

How big of a tree do you want?

Once you start decandling, the trunk stops thickening.

Is this what Boon says?
My teacher is a Boon graduate; we decandle JBPs in development.
Just curious

 

[Adair M]

It doesn't matter what Boon says, it's what happens!

It's possible to decandle most of the tree except for a few sacrifice branches, to start refinement, and let the sacrifice branches run to build girth.

If, on the other hand, you decandle every thing, you won't get much trunk growth.

Think about how it works: JBP send out candles in the spring. They grow and develop and by the middle summer, they're developed. So then they produce extra energy, so the tree cand build wood. Most thickening occurs in the fall, from my experience.

If a tree is decandled, it has to spend a lot of energy into rebuilding all the foliage that was removed. Energy that WOULD have produced wood is now growing summer candles. So, very little new wood, girth, is produced.

It is possible to let a sacrifice run to build girth, and decandle the rest of the tree for ramification.

 

[drew33998]

Need some help with this guy. My first pine. I have left it alone except for the slip pot I did when I got it. It appears to be pushing a second growth of candles. Here are my questions
1.) the first branch on the right- Would this make a good first branch? If so I do believe I need to cut back to the back bud candles that are closer to the trunk. When should I do this?
2.) the final apex I would like for the tree is actually the current apex. That said I wanted to let the growth on the upper left hand side run long as a sacrifice. How can I slow the apex down right now until the sacrifice actually becomes taller than the apex and starts growing stronger?
3.) Is the current apex a good one for the trunk thickness or would you recommend something else?
4.) Should I cut back and of the candles back to 1 pair right now? Several areas have multiple candle from the same spot, or the whorl wasn't trimmed to two before I got it.
5.) What time of year should I remove a sacrifice?
6.) Ryan Neil says that no matter the time of year when you first get a black pine you should always cut to two candles. Should I do this? I have really just wanted it to focus on its roots this year since I slip potted it.
Thanks for the help.

 

[drew33998]

Need some help with this guy. My first pine. I have left it alone except for the slip pot I did when I got it. It appears to be pushing a second growth of candles. Here are my questions
1.) the first branch on the right- Would this make a good first branch? If so I do believe I need to cut back to the back bud candles that are closer to the trunk. When should I do this?
2.) the final apex I would like for the tree is actually the current apex. That said I wanted to let the growth on the upper left hand side run long as a sacrifice. How can I slow the apex down right now until the sacrifice actually becomes taller than the apex and starts growing stronger?
3.) Is the current apex a good one for the trunk thickness or would you recommend something else?
4.) Should I cut back and of the candles back to 1 pair right now? Several areas have multiple candle from the same spot, or the whorl wasn't trimmed to two before I got it.
5.) What time of year should I remove a sacrifice?
6.) Ryan Neil says that no matter the time of year when you first get a black pine you should always cut to two candles. Should I do this? I have really just wanted it to focus on its roots this year since I slip potted it.
Thanks for the help.

So I re-watched the video posted above and Ryan actually states to take the candles back to 10-12 pairs of needles or the weakest significant buds not two pairs of shoots. Got the day off so I just took candle back to 10-12 pairs on the whole tree. Haven't touched anything else and wont until next spring comes around and I will re-evaluate.

 

[drew33998]

Thanks BVF!

 

[Adair M]

Drew, you have a long growing season in Jacksonville. So, if you cut it now you MAY get more growth. Most likely, you'll get buds that won't really grow until next spring.

But, you should consult with someone in your area about that.

When I asked earlier in the thread about " how big do you want it", I really wasn't referring to height. A "big" JBP means a trunk of some substance. Height is easy. Girth is something else.

Personally, I think you need yo let this one grow some more. Keep the low branches "cut back" but let some go as a sacrifice.

I don't think it's ready for the needle counting phase yet.

 

[drew33998]

Ok. I agree that I do want a thicker trunk. Just was unsure of how to keep the sacrifice from overpowering the branches that I would want to keep. I thought it was by balancing the energy by needle pulling. Is there a good book on pines out there?

 

[coh]

Here is why this stuff can be so confusing.

In Ryan's video, he uses the method of removing all candles at the same time. He says to leave about 5 mm at the base of each candle. In Brian's video, he uses the method of removing candles in stages, weakest first...then middle strength...followed by strongest. I guess either method will work as long as you're consistent. But, I've read elsewhere that if you remove all the candles at once, you should leave more of a stub on the strongest candles and less of a stub (almost no stub) on the weakest. Anyone care to comment? Which approach does Boon teach?

Also...Ryan made a point of saying "never remove all the old needles" (reasoning he gave had something to do with hormones). Brian specifically said to remove all old needles.

Again, anyone want to comment?

I have a black pine that is ready for this kind of work and it's a little confusing!

Chris

 

[0soyoung]

I keep old needless because popping a fascicular bud is more likely than an epicormic one (for back budding). My climate is so cool that I must decandle well before the spring candles have hardened, so fall pruning/needle-pulling is the primary back bud inducement. In warmer climes (where spring candles harden), keaping old needless could be unnecessary.

I don't think the hormone (auxin) argument is correct. Newly hardened foliage produces the most auxin (as well as photosynthate). Production then declines with age.

 

[Adair M]

There are two primary methods for decandling. One is the all at once technique, where you leave longer stubs on the stronger candles. The other is the 10 day technique where the weakest are done first, then 10 days later the middle strength ones, then 10 days later the strong ones.

And, you can combine the two techniques!

Some trees respond better to one technique or the other. So, it pays to know both.

Boon teaches both. We generally DO the all at once technique since we are only there for three days. However, on one tree, I was there when we only decandled the weak candles on one tree. Someone taking the Intensive class the following week would do the next set.

Now, understand, all that is related to fine tweeting a highly refined tree! Where you have all the branches, all the trunk, and you're just working on "balance".

NONE of that applies to the tree that is the subject of this thread. This tree needs to GROW! Just keep the low branches close to the trunk.

You apply different techniques to the tree according to its development stage.

 

[sorce]

That Eric Schrader post is awesome for growing out pine.

I think the most important thing is the slow removal of the sacrifices.

Keep them from shading the refined, or to-be-refined sections.

It looks a Wee yellow no? Nice start tho!

Fertilizer fertilizer fertilizer!

Sorce