jcrossett
Chumono
Almost looks like the left side is flipping you off for that comment.
Opinions on re-doing a trident maple chop in late August.
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quietobserver
Omono
I've heard quite a bit about Marc. Does he do anything online or just via email inquiry? Nice piece of material there. Thanks!No. I got it from The Growing Grounds. Marc made me a deal I couldn't refuse.
Dav4
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I've communicated with him entirely through email. His older website had a page with pages of potted stumps and pre-bonsai up for sale. I can't find that section now, but he says he is currently updating the website, so we'll see.
http://www.thegrowinggrounds.com/
Dav4
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I think so. I just need lots of strong growth at/above the chop for a few years. This one will be in a mica training pot for a few years any way...gonna need to find a pretty large glazed pot for this one.
And ship it to me...
Dav4
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That's a good idea...but I'm lazy. I'll probably make a box for it.
Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
I would be concerned doing a chop now. Why not wait until spring when it is the better time? You can chop and repot all at the same time. Its not like 8 months are gona cause a huge delay in development or anything
Tentakelaertje
Omono
Why not airlayer the left part? Or select branches and let them run wild until you got nice fat branches. How big is the base?
Dav4
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The top is a real mess and I'd love to take advantage of the longer growing season I've got to start the fix if there isn't a big downside.
Dav4
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The base is pretty big, maybe 10 inches across. Air layering the left trunk would give me 1 layered tree with no character or movement and another tree with a huge chop scar that would only heal in the ground over many years. I think the trunk from the base and up, including the upper portion right until you get the reverse taper, has the potential to create a very impressive tree, and layering it or chopping off a whole trunk would be a mistake.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Agree, with a tree like this, it's all about the massive feel, no reason to have a massive base and a delicate canopy in my opinion.
Dav4
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A slow day at work so I got home early.
Dav4
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So, we've established 3 things- it's late August, the chop is indeed an ugly one and needs remediation, and the tree isn't root bound. I was ready to grab my die grinder and go to town... but I've decided to wait. The leaves are a bit pale and sparse compared to my other big trident... and @Paradox is right. There's no rush to do this and I only have to wait 6 months to wait. I did a semi-slip pot, basically putting a 3" layer of composted bark on the pot bottom, replacing the root ball, then filling in the gaps at the pot edge. It got a fistful of shake and feed fert on the new soil surface and is back on the bench to hopefully pump up a bit before the hammer falls next year.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Agreed on this also. This does not look like typical strong trident growth to me, I would wait as you are planning. If not root bound wonder why it looks weak(ish)? Maybe not enough fert? What is the soil now?
Have you picked a spot where you plan to rechop yet?
Have you picked a spot where you plan to rechop yet?
Dav4
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Honestly, my first thought was inadequate ferts +/- heat or drought stress. The soil is essentially ground bark, and there's lots of root in there. There's also a fine mat of healthy roots right on the soil surface, too, likely because it looked like there was a mulch top dressing. I'm hoping the slip pot and granular feed will get it going again, either for a late summer push or certainly next year. If I see new roots poking out of the drainage holes by the end of October, we'll be good to go next year....
....and I have a general idea of where I want to carve down to. The plan is to have a more angled cut that's more apparent from the front, which I hope will- 1) diminish the reverse taper significantly, and 2) actually make the chop smaller and more likely to heal...though I wonder if the trunk under all that deadwood has started to rot. Oh well, that's why we have die grinders and dremels
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Eric Group
Masterpiece
I have never had a Maple show any stress because of a chop. (Pines, yes, Maples, Elms, CM... No..) Repotting during the dead of winter is about the only thing that seems to kill them short of not watering or some really Nasty disease! If you want to chop that sucker now it wouldn't miss a beat... All I would recommend is that you seal it well after the chop to avoid any issues over the winter with wood rotting...
Waiting until Spring won't hurt but is far from necessary and in my experience, these guys move a lot more sap than people think during the winters this far south! Late Fall and late Winter can be two of the times when the most healing (and root growth) occurs on Maples Around here. Probably not the case much further North, but here where it barely gets cold enough prior to Christmas to make a JM drop it's leaves, we have some sort of activity almost year round... Tridents drop trow a bit early than the Palmatums, but seem to start growing again within a very close time frame in the Spring...
I guess what I am getting at is I see very little- if any- reason not to chop away, and I see some down side potential to not doing it now- possibly missing two active growing times for Maples in the Southeast- Fall and very early Spring prior to bud break!
Not going to make or break the tree either way, just my input and may I say that is one heck of a nice pickup! I know people don't generally feel it is polite to discuss such things, but could you give me an idea of what a tree of this size is going for there? A range is fine, or if you want to shoot me a PM.. I have looked at their site befor but never made the trip and wondering if I should sometime. I am growing some Tridents out for myself (ranging in size from seedlings up to well over an inch calipers) but have thought more than once about speeding the process up by just buying one already grown out! Might be in a place to get one soon...
Waiting until Spring won't hurt but is far from necessary and in my experience, these guys move a lot more sap than people think during the winters this far south! Late Fall and late Winter can be two of the times when the most healing (and root growth) occurs on Maples Around here. Probably not the case much further North, but here where it barely gets cold enough prior to Christmas to make a JM drop it's leaves, we have some sort of activity almost year round... Tridents drop trow a bit early than the Palmatums, but seem to start growing again within a very close time frame in the Spring...
I guess what I am getting at is I see very little- if any- reason not to chop away, and I see some down side potential to not doing it now- possibly missing two active growing times for Maples in the Southeast- Fall and very early Spring prior to bud break!
Not going to make or break the tree either way, just my input and may I say that is one heck of a nice pickup! I know people don't generally feel it is polite to discuss such things, but could you give me an idea of what a tree of this size is going for there? A range is fine, or if you want to shoot me a PM.. I have looked at their site befor but never made the trip and wondering if I should sometime. I am growing some Tridents out for myself (ranging in size from seedlings up to well over an inch calipers) but have thought more than once about speeding the process up by just buying one already grown out! Might be in a place to get one soon...
Dav4
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Thanks Eric. Your thoughts are essentially the same as mine in that a healthy trident wouldn't skip a beat and would actually start to callus within a few weeks. However, I didn't get to unbox this one until 8:30 last night and only got a quick look at it this AM while watering it prior to heading off to work. I was able to give it a thorough once over this afternoon, and while I feel it will do just fine, the vigor I would like to see just isn't there right now. I'm planning to aggressively work the roots along with some carving next spring, so I'll leave it alone for now.
As far as the price, I believe it was an "end of the season" discount. When I asked him if he had any trident trunks available, he said he only had two- this one for $350, and a much smaller one for $300. I suspect this one sat on the bench because of the reverse taper and the crummy chop and he wanted to get rid of it. I say this because the stock priced on the older website was significantly higher. I'm like you in that I'm growing out some tridents in the ground, but I'd like something in a pot to start to refine. Anyway, it was my combo anniversary/Bday present, or at least, that's what I told my wife.
By the way, I'm going to try to get to the Silhouette show in Kannapolis this year and I hope to visit the growing grounds while I'm up there.
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Giga
Masterpiece
That's a beast, but down south here we get longer growth. I just trunk chopped two red maples at the start of August and they are pushing growth like its spring. If it's weaker I'd wait like you planned and cave and root work that monster. I really love big maples that are slightly hollow and all carved out. This looks like a lot of fun!
Eric Group
Masterpiece
Thanks Ethan's Dave, well reasoned conclusion! Sounds like a great plan. Thanks for giving me an idea of a price range, that is surprisingly inexpensive for a tree that size I would have guessed st $500+ easily! I think you are correct that some of the challenges probably contributed to the lower cost of this one.
It seems everyone wants those perfectly shaped, winding tapered monsters you see come from Japan... I would love to have a tree like that myself too, but they cost thousands! Cannot wait to see where you take this one. Maybe I will get my S together and go txt he winter show myself!
