Eugene's bald cypress progression
- Thread starter eugenev2
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eugenev2
Shohin
eugenev2
Shohin
Not much girth difference from feb, but it's only the start of spring. But in it's new much larger pot...wonder how quickly it will out grow this one. But the trunk growing will continue for at least this season and then we take it from there
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eugenev2
Shohin
eugenev2
Shohin
So now for the advice and questions portion. I would like my tree to eventually look like one of the below pictures, based on the progress so far. What would be the best route to follow?
The tree is currently over 6 feet in height, so I was considering a trunk chop to make height more manageable as well as moving it towards the below, but not sure whether i should let it grow out for another year or two?
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Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
Picture 1 is doable, 2 will be a bit more difficult, 3 you may not live long enough to do that if you want to develop a trunk that size with those flutes in a pot.
Let your tree grow for the next two years at least. During the growing season dunk it in water to around soil level or a little bit more to develop root flare. I see in your picture that you already dunk it, just raise the water level more. Your tree is in the early explosive growth. During this stage, chopping it results in a slow down but the tree will quickly develop a new top with practically the same diameter. There will hardly be any taper. I have chopped at least half a dozen BC in the same stage and the results were all the same - No taper. Wait until the trunk get close to your planned diameter then do the usual trunk development via chopping.
eugenev2
Shohin
Haha, disclaimer they don't have to look identical to these, but i can dream. Yea, started the spring/summer semi water submerging when i saw it on one of your (i think) threads, made a massive difference to trunk growth. Ok leave it for about another two years then, how are they with healing such big scars tho?
Also side question, have you ever been able to get the top to root from a trunk chop that size? Would be great to have the possibility to get another tree out of a trunk chop
Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
Air layer is your better bet to get another tree. This will slow the development of the current tree down a few months if you can spare it.
As for scar healing, it will take a long while to heal the big trunk chop scar but BCs heal rather quickly. Most people simply choose to carve the chop and make it a feature of the tree.
Collect or buy yourself at tree with the bases and trunk you desire... ok...just noticed your location...forget the first suggestion. Put it in the ground and let the roots run as long as possible...will take several years under ideal conditions. No chops until the trunk and base are the desired size.
eugenev2
Shohin
Possibly a stupid question, but forgive me if it is. I know ground growing is faster in thickening the trunk for most trees, but what would provider the better results, the ground growing or dunk pot in water approach? As it would not be possible for me to ground grow and have it in a marsh type environment
It is a good question! I find that many folks are confused about the difference. The difference is this... when you submerge a container grown tree you will get buttressing...swelling of the base but minimal fluting at best. You can certainly create a more than reasonable tree with this method. As a bonus, many folks have had knees form in fully submersed (to the top of the container) container grown trees...it has never happened for me, but there is enough evidence out there to make me believe that it is certainly possible. If you want fluting that requires long roots. Long roots form in the ground and not in a container. If you want both you will most likely need to find a swamp collected tree. Growing in the swamp creates a trunk with swollen base and roots that form flutes that further improve the taper. You don't necessarily need to have a marsh environment for ground growing. BC are often used in landscaping situations where water is not present and they often form both flutes and knees.
19Mateo83
Masterpiece
Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
You can see that in his post in another thread.
Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
This BC by J. C Herbrich (picture posted on BC bonsai FB group) really demonstrates your point John. I remember you posting a picture of one of your tree developed in the same manner some time back.
In development for 22 years in a pot, the tree stays small but has a tremendous base. However there is no flute to improve the taper so the main trunk has little taper.
Maiden69
Masterpiece
My thread.
Bald Cypress group progression
I have 4 BC seedlings that I bought in March. They are all planted in inorganic soil, they do have 1/3" akadama, but that was not enough to keep them growing so I submerged the pots in water. I lost 2 to a hail storm. The other 3 are pictured here in order of time. The last one is a 1 gal tree I...
You will not get fluting on a BC in the ground unless the roots extend into a body or water. Or, it is provided water almost constantly by run-off or irrigation. BC's will thicken substantially by being submerged in water, this doesn't have to be to the point of going over the root flare at all, just enough water so the roots have constant contact with it.
BC's roots grow profusely. If placed in a pot to develop make sure the pot is extremely oversized, or you will end up with a crown of roots around the trunk as I have on my first nursery bought BC. This was partially my fault because I didn't do the root work at the time as it was out of season. Had I know what I know now, I would have waited till spring to move the tree into a bag.
The benefit of RootPouch is that they constrict the roots killing the end, making it ramify way faster than on a pot, which will produce an abundance of feeder roots making the tree grow at a faster rate than if the trees were on the ground. The only draw back is that you will not get a lot of fluting, as you will not have dominant roots extending meters away from the tree thickening veins up the trunk. I plan on testing a few theories I have to see if I can overcome this and still grow in a pouch.
Here is the collected BC I bought from @Cajunrider still in the RootPouch and in a bucket of water frozen solid.
The two trees above will be the subject of my test this year... if it works it will possibly provide the best of both worlds home grown and swamp grown at the same time.
Maiden69
Masterpiece
Yes, this can be done several ways as well, just slightly pot up higher every time uncovering a little bit of the nebari each time, that will thicken the roots at the base. I don't remember who was the artist but there was a post recently about someone that rarely ever repot his trees and the bases looked just like this one. A bunch of roots that had thicken over the years uplifting the tree out of the pot.
eugenev2
Shohin
Sjoe ok, lots of things to think about here. I got a taste of the possible root issues with BC when the pencil thick tree i bought grew about 10 times thicker in a single season, thanks to the water tray, but now it was way to big for the container it was in. I attempted to fix this issue with putting it in a container roughly 5 times larger, but i can see it has almost out grown this as well. I will need to check what options are available to me, at least i have some space now for ground growing, but i will need to do space planning and prioritizing with my other trees that also require some ground growingMy thread.
Bald Cypress group progression
I have 4 BC seedlings that I bought in March. They are all planted in inorganic soil, they do have 1/3" akadama, but that was not enough to keep them growing so I submerged the pots in water. I lost 2 to a hail storm. The other 3 are pictured here in order of time. The last one is a 1 gal tree I...www.bonsainut.com
You will not get fluting on a BC in the ground unless the roots extend into a body or water. Or, it is provided water almost constantly by run-off or irrigation. BC's will thicken substantially by being submerged in water, this doesn't have to be to the point of going over the root flare at all, just enough water so the roots have constant contact with it.
BC's roots grow profusely. If placed in a pot to develop make sure the pot is extremely oversized, or you will end up with a crown of roots around the trunk as I have on my first nursery bought BC. This was partially my fault because I didn't do the root work at the time as it was out of season. Had I know what I know now, I would have waited till spring to move the tree into a bag.
View attachment 524780
The benefit of RootPouch is that they constrict the roots killing the end, making it ramify way faster than on a pot, which will produce an abundance of feeder roots making the tree grow at a faster rate than if the trees were on the ground. The only draw back is that you will not get a lot of fluting, as you will not have dominant roots extending meters away from the tree thickening veins up the trunk. I plan on testing a few theories I have to see if I can overcome this and still grow in a pouch.
Here is the collected BC I bought from @Cajunrider still in the RootPouch and in a bucket of water frozen solid.
View attachment 524782
The two trees above will be the subject of my test this year... if it works it will possibly provide the best of both worlds home grown and swamp grown at the same time.
Joe Dupre'
Masterpiece
Another angle. My buddies and I have found that bald cypress can thrive in huge containers unlike most other species. Big containers equal more and longer root growth. My hunch (only a hunch at this point) is that longer roots promote more fluting. With a large container, maybe sitting on a higher bench, I think you are more apt to see any roots that might be getting too aggressive and be able to remedy the situation. Flooding definitely seems to increase flair.
eugenev2
Shohin
Dabbler
Chumono
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I don't know if you'll get much fluting in a small container as there is just such a big difference between ground growing and container growing, best bet is to collect or buy one that is already fluted - best of luck to you as they are an amazing species
