Another Metal Halide Thread...
- Thread starter Redwood Ryan
- Start date
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Yeah I think that's what I found during my research. What I'm really wondering is whether the switch would be worth it lumen-wise. Not sure exactly how much of a difference there is from The T5 to the 400WOccoquan metal halide...
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
That's what I was thinking, not too huge of a price increase per month. I'm just having a helluva time finding decent priced fixtures online...
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Good point, thanks!
I've been considering this light....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400-Watt-Di...t-/300580631388?forcev4exp=true&forceRpt=true
Last edited:
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
I guess I'll just go with this light:
http://www.amazon.com/Earth-Worth-G...29257&sr=8-1&keywords=earth+grow+metal+halide
http://www.amazon.com/Earth-Worth-G...29257&sr=8-1&keywords=earth+grow+metal+halide
Ryan have you gone to actual grow light sights and read about the advantages and disadvantages of different hoods and fixtures?
When I was considering getting a MH I searched and read and searched more to learn all I could about these lights, hoods, and ballast.
My first question is how do you intend to use these lights?
Are you going to do away with your enclosures?
Do you plan on using these lights over your enclosures or build another enclosure to house light and plants?
These are all very important details which you have not covered.
First you know the lights put out large amounts of heat. To help with this and especially if you plan on building an enclosure to hold light and plant the hoods that are enclosed with the round vents on the ends are used for such applications and a vent fan will need to be used to pull the heat through the vent pipe removing most of the heat from the fixture. There are several types of these hoods and some are much better then others.
Now if you plan on using the light over an enclosure you will have to vent the enclosure which kinda defeats the purpose of the enclosure. But you need to vent it with a vent on each side and normally a fan to pull cool air through. You can even wire the fan to operate off a 120 volt thermostats and have it come on when the enclosure temperature reaches a high temperature which will be often.
See not only does the light itself get hot but it has radiant heat as well and will cause a greenhouse affect on your enclosure probably raising temperatures into the 100s.
To give you an idea. Two 250 watt MH over my reef tank raised the water temperature in my 125 gallon tank into the high 90s killing everything in it. I'm not going to get into chillers and such for a reef tank. But this happened in less then a day with an open canopy. Meaning the lights were not sealed to the tank. So the temperature spike when my chiller failed was due to radiant heat.
This is a big reason why I got rid of the halides on my tank, and a major deciding factor with my plants as I like and they LOVE my enclosure. So until I get my LEDs made I will stick with fluorescent lighting.
When I was considering getting a MH I searched and read and searched more to learn all I could about these lights, hoods, and ballast.
My first question is how do you intend to use these lights?
Are you going to do away with your enclosures?
Do you plan on using these lights over your enclosures or build another enclosure to house light and plants?
These are all very important details which you have not covered.
First you know the lights put out large amounts of heat. To help with this and especially if you plan on building an enclosure to hold light and plant the hoods that are enclosed with the round vents on the ends are used for such applications and a vent fan will need to be used to pull the heat through the vent pipe removing most of the heat from the fixture. There are several types of these hoods and some are much better then others.
Now if you plan on using the light over an enclosure you will have to vent the enclosure which kinda defeats the purpose of the enclosure. But you need to vent it with a vent on each side and normally a fan to pull cool air through. You can even wire the fan to operate off a 120 volt thermostats and have it come on when the enclosure temperature reaches a high temperature which will be often.
See not only does the light itself get hot but it has radiant heat as well and will cause a greenhouse affect on your enclosure probably raising temperatures into the 100s.
To give you an idea. Two 250 watt MH over my reef tank raised the water temperature in my 125 gallon tank into the high 90s killing everything in it. I'm not going to get into chillers and such for a reef tank. But this happened in less then a day with an open canopy. Meaning the lights were not sealed to the tank. So the temperature spike when my chiller failed was due to radiant heat.
This is a big reason why I got rid of the halides on my tank, and a major deciding factor with my plants as I like and they LOVE my enclosure. So until I get my LEDs made I will stick with fluorescent lighting.
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Thanks Kevster, great reply.
I've looked at as many online threads as I can. I know all about venting and the heat issues the lights bring about. The fixture I am thinking about buying is very open, so I don't think it would need to be vented. Or at least, that doesn't appear to be an option.
I don't plan on any closed enclosures, probably just surrounding the trees in mylar to reflect the light. The light would hang from the ceiling over the two trees.
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Ah, that's interesting. I just think the fact that since the light in the link I posted isn't encased, it shouldn't get as hot.
davetree
Omono
You have only two trees ? Get a 250 watt !!!!
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Yeah, only two trees
That is, two trees I want to light. 847 other Ficus though, but they're under flourescents. These two each have their own 4 foot, 4 bulb T5. They both have a trunk that exceeds 7 inches. That's why I feel given their size they deserve something more powerful.
Maybe I could get two 250W lights?
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
I want to give these two more light:
What I'm thinking I'll probably do is get a 250W, place it over top one of the trees, see how that tree does, then get one for the other tree if the one under the 250W starts taking off with growth...
What I'm thinking I'll probably do is get a 250W, place it over top one of the trees, see how that tree does, then get one for the other tree if the one under the 250W starts taking off with growth...
If you are looking for a 250 watt metal halide. I have a Sunsystems 2 unit that I do not use any longer. The unit has the ballast enclosed and I only used it for 1 year (upgraded to a 1000 watt). If you're interested let me know and we can work something out where it will take it off my hands and save you some money too...
C.A. Young
Sapling
Metal Halide Lighting
I have been growing indoor bonsai under metal halide lighting for years. While high output fluorescents can be used, bonsai tend to remain rather static under such light. (That said, I find T5's very useful for propagating cuttings and very small trees.) Under halides, my indoor trees display significant growth and thickening. Yes, they can be expensive to run, and yes they run hot, but the rewards are well worth it. My best advise is to get yourself a good digital/electronic ballast, NOT one of the old coil and magnet kinds. Besides running bulbs much brighter than the old magnetic type, digital ballasts can be used to run different wattage bulbs. The new air cooled lumatek, for instance, will run a 1000 watt, 600 watt or a 400watt metal halide. This means that you can start with a 400 watt bulb, and if you love the results and want to expand your collection and set-up, you can simply pick up a 600 watt bulb, and set the ballast to 600watt.
My only caveat is that you should not dim HID bulbs. While all the new digital ballasts claim they can be used for dimming, I disagree with this practice. If you have a 600 watt bulb, run it at the 600watt setting. HID bulbs were designed to produce a particular quality of light at a particular wattage, and you have no idea what you are doing to the quality of light by dimming it.
I have been growing indoor bonsai under metal halide lighting for years. While high output fluorescents can be used, bonsai tend to remain rather static under such light. (That said, I find T5's very useful for propagating cuttings and very small trees.) Under halides, my indoor trees display significant growth and thickening. Yes, they can be expensive to run, and yes they run hot, but the rewards are well worth it. My best advise is to get yourself a good digital/electronic ballast, NOT one of the old coil and magnet kinds. Besides running bulbs much brighter than the old magnetic type, digital ballasts can be used to run different wattage bulbs. The new air cooled lumatek, for instance, will run a 1000 watt, 600 watt or a 400watt metal halide. This means that you can start with a 400 watt bulb, and if you love the results and want to expand your collection and set-up, you can simply pick up a 600 watt bulb, and set the ballast to 600watt.
My only caveat is that you should not dim HID bulbs. While all the new digital ballasts claim they can be used for dimming, I disagree with this practice. If you have a 600 watt bulb, run it at the 600watt setting. HID bulbs were designed to produce a particular quality of light at a particular wattage, and you have no idea what you are doing to the quality of light by dimming it.
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Great, thanks!
I've noticed that the trees under the fluorescents are pretty static and growth is pretty slow. The lumatek you mention sounds interesting, is it available for purchase online? That's one of the biggest issues I'm coming across, availability. I go to the local hydroponics store, but they don't have what I'm looking for, so I have to keep searching the net.
And I'll be sure not to dim the bulbs, even if I knew how
C.A. Young
Sapling
Halides
Ryan,
Here's a link to a US store that has them at a pretty fair price. I just bought two of them, and they arrived in perfect condition. Remember to order the proper lamp cord with the ballast. These ones in particular use the "lock and seal" connection. Just search around the website for it. And like I said, start with a 400 or 600 watt bulb in the 6000 - 7000 kelvin range. Then, if you like the results, you can go up a size without having to swap ballasts. Have fun, these really are sexy-looking pieces of engineering!
http://www.hydrogalaxy.com/growing-lights/ballasts/lumatek-air-cooled-dial-a-watt-dimmable/
Ryan,
Here's a link to a US store that has them at a pretty fair price. I just bought two of them, and they arrived in perfect condition. Remember to order the proper lamp cord with the ballast. These ones in particular use the "lock and seal" connection. Just search around the website for it. And like I said, start with a 400 or 600 watt bulb in the 6000 - 7000 kelvin range. Then, if you like the results, you can go up a size without having to swap ballasts. Have fun, these really are sexy-looking pieces of engineering!
http://www.hydrogalaxy.com/growing-lights/ballasts/lumatek-air-cooled-dial-a-watt-dimmable/
davetree
Omono
Hard to believe that a grow store doesn't have a variety of halide lamps. They should have everything you need and then some, including digital ballasts. What kind of a hydro store is that ?
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Nice site, thanks! I'm definitely considering one of those...
Yeah no kidding, you'd think wouldn't you.
For now, a member here, Pkp1903, has sold me his 250W metal halide that he used for a season before upgrading to a 1000W. It's the light in this link:
http://www.agriculturesolutions.com...-Halide.html?gclid=CNSntuGsiLMCFelFMgoduD8Aag
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
I received the light today and plugged it in and realized just how bright these lights can get! My only concern now is how I'm going to hang it....hmmm.....
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