A Pine seldom seen.

[Vance Wood]

I collected this one in my yard in early September. It was damaged by our landscapers (but this is yamadori, not landscaping material). I candle pruned it, fed and watered it during the Summer. I planted it in 80% pumice, 20% duff from beneath a mature piñon, with some mycelium from the spot where I dug the tree. These are difficult because they grow in poor caliche soil and we are in a very dry climate, so they have long tap roots, few thick side roots and virtually no fine roots. I'll let you know how it goes. So far, it seems happy. This and Juniperus monosperma are the dominant species where I live (I'm working on a J. monosperma in the ground for collection next year).

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Thank You for responding with actual material and not just opinion, though I respect educated thought out opinion.

 

[Paradox]

They are supposidly used as landscape material? Probably out west. I've never seen one in any nursery around here.

Sorry Vance, you did ask for an opinion. Since they aren't found anywhere near here, and they are not a common species for bonsai, the only thing I can go on is the species specific characteristics. Pinion pines seem to share a lot of the same characteristics as pitch pine, except for the elevation of course.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

On the subject of native pines, Vance, have you done much experimenting with the Michigan native Jack Pine, P banksiana? And the Red Pine, P. resinosa? (native, not the Japanese species) If you have, maybe start a separate thread about Jack Pine, and another thread about Red Pine.
I have been wanting to attempt these two species, figuring they would do well in my climate.

 

[tom tynan]

Pinyon Pines as nursery material are always grafted and grafted quite high - making a very difficult choice for bonsai material. Michael Hagedorn has a very nice collected Pinyon and should be viewable on his website. His original article was in an old issue of Bonsai Today.

They are difficult to collect - and I have asked numerous well known collectors to grab one for me - but no luck to date. I have also heard that in the Colorado area the Pinyons are being hit with some sort of blight. Not a common tree for bonsai - but probably worth the effort to find one....

 

[PiñonJ]

They are supposidly used as landscape material? Probably out west. I've never seen one in any nursery around here.

I was mostly making the distinction because I mentioned landscapers, but yes, they are used on a small scale, mostly by professional landscapers. They are not widely available in nurseries.

 

[PiñonJ]

I have also heard that in the Colorado area the Pinyons are being hit with some sort of blight.

We have been in a drought in the southwest for many years, so the trees are very weakened. About ten years ago, there was a massive die-off of piñons due to bark beetle. The beetles get into the cambium and introduce a fungus, which cuts off nutrient transport, and kills the tree. With the drought, the trees don't have enough sap to keep the beetles out. Some areas lost 90% of their piñons. A more limited infestation has been seen recently. Other species of conifer have been hit as well, though not as extensively.

 

[Vance Wood]

On the subject of native pines, Vance, have you done much experimenting with the Michigan native Jack Pine, P banksiana? And the Red Pine, P. resinosa? (native, not the Japanese species) If you have, maybe start a separate thread about Jack Pine, and another thread about Red Pine.
I have been wanting to attempt these two species, figuring they would do well in my climate.

Have not. In my second hand experience the Jack Pine does not collect well by all of those I know who have tried. The Red Pine is unknown but the needles are pretty long. The reason I am so interested in the Pinion Pine is that the tree has bonsai written all over it.

 

[Smoke]

The Southern Cal. crowd (John Naka followers) collected this tree extensivly in the sixties and seventies. Not so much anymore due to good specimens being hard to find and property access drying up.

Here are some of the better specimens from yesteryear.

 

[PiñonJ]

Thanks for posting the photos. If these were collected in California, they are presumably Pinus monophylla.

 

[Smoke]

Thanks for posting the photos. If these were collected in California, they are presumably Pinus monophylla.

Nope, all New Mexico.

 

[Vance Wood]

Nope, all New Mexico.

I thought they looked like they had two needles.

 

[Dan W.]

Here's the collected Pinyon I was talking about. Ryan Neil styled at the ABS/BCI show in Denver last year.

Part 1
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rRFfBIGDYwI

Part 2
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GqUXOwCT9ZE

 

[GrimLore]

Here's the collected Pinyon I was talking about. Ryan Neil styled at the ABS/BCI show in Denver last year.

That is a very nice piece - may I ask what that sold for at auction or is it not proper?

Grimmy

 

[Dan W.]

Sorry Grimmy, I wish I could remember but no luck so far.

 

[dkraft81]

Isnt that the tree that harold bought?

 

[lackhand]

Pinyons came up a few weeks ago during a discussion about collecting at a club meeting. General consensus was they don't do well in Phoenix. Not sure if it's the lack of winter, too hot in the summer, or altitude. Up in Flagstaff they seem to do fine, and my brother-in-law and I collected a great one that's doing well in Idaho. I agree, they seem like a perfect species for bonsai. I would love to get more info on pinyon as bonsai, but it's been a bit hard to find.

 

[Vance Wood]

Pinyons came up a few weeks ago during a discussion about collecting at a club meeting. General consensus was they don't do well in Phoenix. Not sure if it's the lack of winter, too hot in the summer, or altitude. Up in Flagstaff they seem to do fine, and my brother-in-law and I collected a great one that's doing well in Idaho. I agree, they seem like a perfect species for bonsai. I would love to get more info on pinyon as bonsai, but it's been a bit hard to find.

Information is hard to find because finding someone who has taken this tree seriously is hard to find. This is kind of the same problem I had with Mugo Pines, and I suspect that the problems with the tree are more related to people trying to treat them likd JBP's or some other cookie cutter method. I also believe that a lot of that is solvable.

 

[GrimLore]

Information is hard to find because finding someone who has taken this tree seriously is hard to find. This is kind of the same problem I had with Mugo Pines, and I suspect that the problems with the tree are more related to people trying to treat them likd JBP's or some other cookie cutter method. I also believe that a lot of that is solvable.

Also have to stir into the pot that there are several species adding to the mystery...

Grimmy

 

[Poink88]

Information is hard to find because finding someone who has taken this tree seriously is hard to find. This is kind of the same problem I had with Mugo Pines, and I suspect that the problems with the tree are more related to people trying to treat them likd JBP's or some other cookie cutter method. I also believe that a lot of that is solvable.

I am having the same problem working with TX Persimmon right now. I've seen a few bonsai of it but hardly any guidance/tips on when & how to do things. Funny thing is, I was told they are supposed to be difficult but I find them to be anything but. I chopped a tree down to a stump last year and it sprouted almost like a trident maple would. Stuck the cutting (about 3" dia) to a pot and ignored it and it sprouted! It stopped for a few (summer) months but is growing again now.

Sometimes it is good when there is nothing holding you back . Hopefully, learning about Pinyon/Pinion pine will be the same.

 

[lackhand]

Collected in Utah this summer. Hard to see all the character in this photo but it's all I've got right now, and not sure why it uploaded sideways (sorry) but here it is.



Yes, collected in summer. And it's doing very well so far. It's in a 5 gallon bucket at the moment, so that gives some idea of scale - it's pretty large at the base. I'd like to learn more, because I really don't want to mess it up, this has potential to be a great tree.