Superthrive - it Works -myth

bretts

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Originally Posted by bretts
Some other people seem to be disregarding Facts I have submitted. It is still being suggested that there is no field study that auxin works?
Here is but one


We have been over this many times, pay attention please, NO one is denying that, but you are ignoring the facts about this auxin as posted with proof.
This from just your last post.


the simple fact that you are using a product that no one can show a single documented advantageous use for

Yes we have been going around in circles that is your fdault not mine to solve this I am taking this one fact at a time.
So If we are to move onto the sprouting issue let us be clear on were we are with Auxin as a pesticide.
1) Auxin is very versitile and can be used as a pesticide and herbicide. There is no reason why we should not use it for root regeneration because of this.
2) Superthrive contains auxin as Naphthalene Acetic Acid. Dip"N"Grow contains auxin as Naphthalene Acetic Acid. As do many of the rooting hormones.
So we can not state that superthive should not be used because it contains Naphthalene Acetic Acid as auxin.

Once we clarify this piont I will address the sprouting issue.
Any disagreement with above should be addressed with facts linked to reply. This would only be fair with your claim of ghost links.
 

Rick Moquin

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You know...

Whether it works or not why waste your breath. Will will argue that the sky is red, just to prove a point, or try to.

The disruption of late started when BT went down. If folks do not like what is going on here, go back there, and stay there.

Personally I don't participate in this kind of crap anymore. When I feel the need to have an intelligent conversation, I talk to my dog. Why not, she never argues :)

Grow up people!
 

Smoke

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You know...

Whether it works or not why waste your breath. Will will argue that the sky is red, just to prove a point, or try to.

The disruption of late started when BT went down. If folks do not like what is going on here, go back there, and stay there.

Personally I don't participate in this kind of crap anymore. When I feel the need to have an intelligent conversation, I talk to my dog. Why not, she never argues :)

Grow up people!

Thats not really fair Rick. To say that Bt folks are the only ones that disrupt this board is streching things a bit. Your quote above says Will will argue the sky is red just to prove a point. I don't have a problem on any forum except the one that Will is on. Will seems to have a problem with certain people. When Will goes away the problem will go away. The problem corrected itself when Will was gone at Bt. We have many good discussions there but they never get personel like they do here.

There is room for everyone here, who are you to tell anyone to go away and stay there? How about posting some trees instead?
 

JasonG

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And here we go, somebody chums the waters with crap, and all the suckers swim in....

I saw no crap in the waters Will, just facts. The forum you are a cofounder or whatever has a sponser that you are trashing in a very bad way. To me, if I owned or started a forum and one of my sponsers had a product I didn't think worked, I would keep my mouth shut as to 1) keep from looking like a fool bad mouthing my sponser, 2) piss off said sponser 3) assure that I countinue to get sponsers in down the road. I can see Miracle Grow (or whoever) thinking, man I am not going to get involved there, that guy will just run his mouth. 4) respectufully decline to have them sponser my competition since they just sale snake oil.

To me its just a common sense thing.

Sponsors are left up for only a year, sorry. Paul Stokes handles prize sponsors exclusively, any concerns should be addressed to him.
Will

The KoB forum is a bit misleading, you click sponsers on the top of the page and it takes you to the link provided earlier. No mention of "contest sponsers" just sponsers which would leave every human on the face of the planet to know that this is a site sponser. Again, just the facts and what is presented in front of me.

As for Superthrive products, who cares? It can not hurt your tree and if you don't like it don't use it, plain and simple. If Harry or KK uses it I wouldn't condemn them for it, its his choice and they have healthy trees. Personally, I don't use it and probably won't use it ever unless it was given to me, say as a sponser or something....

To each his own.....

Jason
 

king kong

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"There is no reason to hang onto old wife's tales (whatever you say Mr. Heath) or to put faith in snake oils (not you superthrive, we need you) that have been shown to be ineffective." ( and where can we find these results?)

"A little knowledge ( that is an understatement) on how a tree grows will put these people out of business." (Sorry people, thanks for your support but I am going to give you all pink slips)

WH chronicle crocks
 

TheSteve

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You've got me baffled as well, Will. You seem to be willing to throw any integrity you may have out the window just to be right. 1)You'll take money from something you don't believe in 2)you say that a chemical will work as long as it isn't in superthrive. honestly you're being a hippocrite.
 
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Thats not really fair Rick. To say that Bt folks are the only ones that disrupt this board is streching things a bit. Your quote above says Will will argue the sky is red just to prove a point. I don't have a problem on any forum except the one that Will is on. Will seems to have a problem with certain people. When Will goes away the problem will go away. The problem corrected itself when Will was gone at Bt. We have many good discussions there but they never get personel like they do here.

There is room for everyone here, who are you to tell anyone to go away and stay there? How about posting some trees instead?

Typical Keppler bullcrap.

As mentioned many times, I am a member on many other forums, including bsite, ibc, ibf, aob, kob, cb, tb, and other bonsai forums, but this is the only forum where this crap goes on. And you're wrong Al, the Will bashing does indeed go on at BT quite often, the difference is that here I can defend myself, something that bugs you to death.

The real proble, as also mentioned many times, is threads just like yours that I quoted, attacking me instead of simply discussing the subject. You are the problem Al, you and your inability to discuss the subject matter.

Anyone with the slightest measure of intelligence can see this, the fact that you can't says it all.


Will
 
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You've got me baffled as well, Will. You seem to be willing to throw any integrity you may have out the window just to be right. 1)You'll take money from something you don't believe in 2)you say that a chemical will work as long as it isn't in superthrive. honestly you're being a hippocrite.

I never said that, what I did say was that there are OTHER auxins that do not prevent sprouting, the auxin in supertrive does.

AND if there only use for superthrive is the auxin, there are better sources available in percentages match to useage needs and species requirements.

Do not put words in my mouth please.


Will
 
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....meaningless drivel....

Jason and all,

Superthrive is a snake oil and unless you have some documented facts to dispute this, you're just blowing smoke out of your arse. I presented facts, so you have any at all?


Will
 

king kong

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Your right WH "there is no reason to hang unto or put faith in snake oils (just kidding Superthrive) that have been shown to be ineffective ( yes and the results are). There is even less reason to support the manufactures or sellers of such magic potions." (thanks for your support guys but now you are going down)

WH cronical crocks
 

JasonG

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Jason and all,

Superthrive is a snake oil and unless you have some documented facts to dispute this, you're just blowing smoke out of your arse. I presented facts, so you have any at all?


Will

Where did I post this??

"Originally Posted by JasonG
....meaningless drivel...."

Or did you just remove my comments and put this in there? If you did then that is wrong, and if you think that my post about treating sponsers with respect is drivel then you are crazier then I thought.

I will continue to actually do bonsai with my hands and not get caught up in such time consuming nonsense.

Jason
 

Smoke

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Typical Keppler bullcrap.

As mentioned many times, I am a member on many other forums, including bsite, ibc, ibf, aob, kob, cb, tb, and other bonsai forums, but this is the only forum where this crap goes on. And you're wrong Al, the Will bashing does indeed go on at BT quite often, the difference is that here I can defend myself, something that bugs you to death.

The real proble, as also mentioned many times, is threads just like yours that I quoted, attacking me instead of simply discussing the subject. You are the problem Al, you and your inability to discuss the subject matter.

Anyone with the slightest measure of intelligence can see this, the fact that you can't says it all.


Will


Hey Will, your just like a typical kid..Mom keeps saying no and so you just lay on the floor and kick you feet and scream louder. Rave away mad man. Your looking like a bigger jerk with each and every post.

Melt down is close at hand.

By the way the subject I chose was for you to post some pregression shots of your trees. You hvestill failed to do so. You told me to do it. I just may. I think it's time we see just what you can do compliments of Keppler bullcrap. Just because you can scream louder doesn't make you right and the proof is in the trees.
 

king kong

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"Foliar feeding at first glance seems almost Romantic." (what is this dude smoken?)

"The soluble fertilizer companies (look out your next for the unemployment line), seeing possibilities of increased sales, since foliar feeding uses far more of their product than traditional feeding practices." ( let see here, I use 5 tons of traditional fertilizer and.... 40 lbs of foliar feed to fertilize my grove... there must be something wrong with my calculater.)
 

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emorrin

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Please forgive me if this has already been mentioned on this tread. I was trying to read it all but some of the "politics" between people got in the way.

I have heard that superthrive kills off mycorrhizal fungi. Is this true?

I am one of those people who habitually add a few drops of superthrive per gallon without thinking about it. To me, I didn't think it could hurt anything. After reading what people have stated on this thread, I will definitely question if I need to buy more superthrive once my supply runs out. I have been one of those believers that it helps in reducing transplant stress. I do question that now. I never had a chance to run a side by side comparison to see if it indeed does help. My main concern is if it does kill mycorrhizal fungi. I am an all organic person who uses nothing but organic fertilizers. My potting medium is mainly inorganic (i.e. Turface, NAPA Oil Absorbent #8822, lava rock, grit) with a pinch of aged pine bark. I am trying to inoculate all my pre-bonsai/bonsai with mycorrhizal fungi. I will definitely stop using superthrive if it does inhibit mycorrhizal fungi growth. I have heard that using a little fish emulsion and liquid seaweed also aids in transplant shock. If this is the case then I will solely use that as a tranplant aid.

Can anyone confirm this? Any comments?
 

JasonG

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Emorrin,

If your trees are healthy and in good shape they will produce thier own mycorrhiza and there is no need to add it to your trees. This is a natural occuring fungi.

I have no clue on the superthrive scenerio.... and I also think you adding the mycorrhiza to your trees wont hurt anything either.

I am sure there are people here who know more about this than I do and will be able to help you more. Just make sure the person has actual hands on experience....

FWIW, Jason
 

TheSteve

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Emorrin-
The way I see it is...
If your trees are healthy and you don't mind what you've been doing to keep them that way then why change? There are big arguments for both sides of superthrive, mycorrhiza, and many other supplements/techniques. If there weren't we wouldn't have 18 pages of arguements on every topic Will doesn't like. You can surf the internet, check out case studies and find results that will support any opinion. Your best bet is to stick with what you're doind until you feel it's unnecessary.
 

emorrin

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Thanks for the info Jason. I have been looking for where it was mentioned, but some respected bonsai master on Pines, mentioned something to this effect. I am thinking that one of the chemicals in superthrive may have some sort of antifungal properties. I am looking to confirm this.

This sounds like a case for mythbusters!
 
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I have no clue on the superthrive scenerio...

And yet, here you are, talking about anything but.


Where did I post this??

"Originally Posted by JasonG
....meaningless drivel...."

Or did you just remove my comments and put this in there? If you did then that is wrong, and if you think that my post about treating sponsers with respect is drivel then you are crazier then I thought.

I posted what I seen. Not speaking the documented facts about a product just because they once donated a single bottle of superthrive to a contest I created would be wrong. The truth can not be bought. I still thank them for their prize donation, but I also still present the facts on the product. We also have many potters who donate pots to the contest, and trust me when I say that if I learn their pots do not withstand freezing temps, if they do not have drainage holes, or otherwise fail as quality bonsai pots, I'd make it known as well. This is called presenting the truth, period. Sponsors, friends, foes, big names, nobodies, it doesn't matter.....the truth wins every time. If that's crazy, then I'm a frigging basket case.

I will continue to actually do bonsai with my hands and not get caught up in such time consuming nonsense.

And here is more meaningless drivel.

Contrary to what you and Weird Al would like to believe, no, desperately want to believe, I also actually do bonsai with my hands. Three first place ribbons, two second place, and one third place ribbon at local shows, one first place awarded by William Valavanis himself. I have over 500 trees in the ground and a hundred more in various stages of development. I do not buy pre-bonsai, nor do I buy bonsai that have all ready been designed. I do not hire others to do my designing, growing, maintenance, or care. I do not hold this against others who choose to do so, as long as they do not act like they are responsible for the outcome of their bonsai. Checkbooksai is just not the way I want to do bonsai, but others can take their own path, just don't devalue mine.

Besides bonsai, which I have shown on at least four bonsai forums, including this one, I also study bonsai and bonsai history, I currently teach introduction to bonsai classes at a local community college, I give workshops and demos at our All State Show every year for the last three years.

I helped to launch two serious bonsai forums (more like on-line magazines) that have received high praise from some of the most advanced people in bonsai and which are the only non-commercial bonsai forums on the net. On KoB we created the only collection of bonsai professionals blogs, and a who's who in bonsai that anyone can use for free to find headliners for their shows and events. On AoB we created the webs only collection of galleries and interviews by some of the best artists of our time.

I have created Internet bonsai contests that are without a doubt the best on the web and which have set records for participants, prizes, and entries, that no other bonsai contest has ever matched.

To add more, I write articles about bonsai, many of which have been published in some of the most premiere bonsai publications in the world and some have been translated into three languages. I am currently editing a book for one of the best bonsai artists of our time and I am in the middle of completing a book on bonsai that covers (withheld for now).

So, you see, I do far more than just actually do bonsai with my hands, I contribute to the bonsai community every day.

Oh yeah, I have about five years in bonsai, what's your excuse?

So you, Al, and others can continue to whine, cry and throw little hissy fits, like you have for the last four years. Its never hurt me, never slowed me down, and hasn't accomplished a damn thing. I have listen to you and people like you complain when my articles get published, when a contest is successful, when a award is wion, when anything succeeds, when I post trees, when I don't, when I post, and when I don't. I have seen the Will bashing threads at BT, and I watch you and those like you flock in to threads such as this, which you had nothing to say in, just to toss jabs at me, PM moderators to complain, write letters, bitch and moan and guess what?......Four years later and I'm still getting published, I'm still invited to teach and speak, I am an editor at two forums and a moderator at another, my book is doing well, AoB and KoB are still up, who's who has been launched, we were at the first National Exhibition as sponsors, and we will be at the World Bonsai Convention this July, as sponsors.

Oh yeah, and after my few years in the art, my bonsai are also doing quite well. ;)

(What this forum needs is a Trunk Monkey so we can keep on topic and get rid of the master baiters and trouble makers)


Living the dream,



Will
 
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Hey Will, your just like a typical kid..Mom keeps saying no and so you just lay on the floor and kick you feet and scream louder. Rave away mad man. Your looking like a bigger jerk with each and every post.
Al, your stupidity is showing, but then again, it always does.

By the way the subject I chose was for you to post some pregression shots of your trees. You hvestill failed to do so. You told me to do it. I just may. I think it's time we see just what you can do compliments of Keppler bullcrap. Just because you can scream louder doesn't make you right and the proof is in the trees.
No, the subject in this thread is superthrive, a subject you obviously have nothing intelligent to say about, in fact, I am wondering if there is any subject you do.

Listen carefully, try to understand, I'll use small words, okay?

I have posted my bonsai here and on other forums, your premise is flawed and you are being a fool.



After four years Al, my arm is getting tired, you still ain't learned a thing, and you just keep coming back for more.
 

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After reading what people have stated on this thread, I will definitely question if I need to buy more superthrive once my supply runs out. I have been one of those believers that it helps in reducing transplant stress. I do question that now.

This is one of the most intelligent posts I have read in this thread.

Question it, research it, don't just blindly follow the pack or take mine, or anyones word for it. Find professional, verifiable research, weigh it against your own experience, and then make an intelligent decision.

For the record, I have not read anything to date that claims superthrive kills off mycorrhizal fungi. I have heard a few experienced bonsaists claim that they won't use the product on pines, but I can find no documented evidence to support these beliefs.

Excellent, on topic question,



Will
 
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