Superthrive - it Works -myth

Boondock

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TheSteve

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Will you only feel that the post was intelligent because he may be agreeing with you. Congratulations on repeating all of your accomplishments verbatim from every other thread on here. I just want to say this. everything you mentioned boils down to being decent with computers and being able to parrot what you've read. I never see you offer advice from initial styling. You offer refinement but never do you take the challenge to step up and tell someone what to do with raw stock. You browbeat people and act like a jerk the majority of the time on this forum yet seem to never step out of line on YOUR forums. Why is that? Maybe because you know your nothing without Robert Steven's support and understand he would never allow you to act like a spoiled child. There are other opinions than yours Will and most people got along fine in Bonsai before ever hearing of you and will if they never do. You demand all this respect yet refuse to give any of your own. Pretty sad for what may be a talented individual (if you ask him).
 
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Will you only feel that the post was intelligent because he may be agreeing with you.
No, because he kept it on topic, which you failed to do. You see , he talked about the actual subject, while you are just talking about me. See the difference?

Congratulations on repeating all of your accomplishments verbatim from every other thread on here.
And I will continue to post such every time someone questions my qualifications or attempts to suggest that I do not "do bonsai" which is foolish and untrue as well.

I never see you offer advice from initial styling. You offer refinement but never do you take the challenge to step up and tell someone what to do with raw stock.
You are mistaken, I have done this often, at Bsite, KoB, and even here on this forum. I do this as well in my classes.

I also do plenty of virts, so many in fact that Chris Johnston complained about them and basically said virts were worthless. Here are just a few....no apologizes necessary.
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90&highlight=virt
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1189&postcount=29
pictures missing from the following, but the point is made.
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?t=654&highlight=virt
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?t=646&highlight=virt

I also wrote two tutorials on creating virts that can be read here.

You browbeat people and act like a jerk the majority of the time on this forum yet seem to never step out of line on YOUR forums. Why is that?
The truth is I respond, for example, see if you can find out where any arguments on this thread started. Like your insults here, I did not attack you, you attacked me, and yet because I respond, I'm browbeating you? Get real, grow up, if you can't stand the heat, stop touching the fire. The reason this crap doesn't happen on AoB and KoB, as well as on Bsite, IBC, IBF, CB, and TB is because such attacks on a person are not allowed. If Al, or Chris tried their crap on any of these forums, they'd be gone, and they know it. Your insulting and off topic thread above would be deleted and you'd be warned once and once only. Trying to say I started it would be laughable. Truthfully this crap happens on this forum because it is allowed to happen, it escalated because I respond.

Maybe because you know your nothing without Robert Steven's support

Huh? This is so stupid that it makes no sense at all....wtf?


Now, the real point, your posts have absolutly nothing to do with the subject matter, if you are capable, debate the topic, not me.


Will
 

JasonG

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And yet, here you are, talking about anything but.






And here is more meaningless drivel.

Contrary to what you and Weird Al would like to believe, no, desperately want to believe, I also actually do bonsai with my hands. Three first place ribbons, two second place, and one third place ribbon at local shows, one first place awarded by William Valavanis himself. I have over 500 trees in the ground and a hundred more in various stages of development. I do not buy pre-bonsai, nor do I buy bonsai that have all ready been designed. I do not hire others to do my designing, growing, maintenance, or care. I do not hold this against others who choose to do so, as long as they do not act like they are responsible for the outcome of their bonsai. Checkbooksai is just not the way I want to do bonsai, but others can take their own path, just don't devalue mine.

Besides bonsai, which I have shown on at least four bonsai forums, including this one, I also study bonsai and bonsai history, I currently teach introduction to bonsai classes at a local community college, I give workshops and demos at our All State Show every year for the last three years.

I helped to launch two serious bonsai forums (more like on-line magazines) that have received high praise from some of the most advanced people in bonsai and which are the only non-commercial bonsai forums on the net. On KoB we created the only collection of bonsai professionals blogs, and a who's who in bonsai that anyone can use for free to find headliners for their shows and events. On AoB we created the webs only collection of galleries and interviews by some of the best artists of our time.

I have created Internet bonsai contests that are without a doubt the best on the web and which have set records for participants, prizes, and entries, that no other bonsai contest has ever matched.

To add more, I write articles about bonsai, many of which have been published in some of the most premiere bonsai publications in the world and some have been translated into three languages. I am currently editing a book for one of the best bonsai artists of our time and I am in the middle of completing a book on bonsai that covers (withheld for now).

So, you see, I do far more than just actually do bonsai with my hands, I contribute to the bonsai community every day.

Oh yeah, I have about five years in bonsai, what's your excuse?

So you, Al, and others can continue to whine, cry and throw little hissy fits, like you have for the last four years. Its never hurt me, never slowed me down, and hasn't accomplished a damn thing. I have listen to you and people like you complain when my articles get published, when a contest is successful, when a award is wion, when anything succeeds, when I post trees, when I don't, when I post, and when I don't. I have seen the Will bashing threads at BT, and I watch you and those like you flock in to threads such as this, which you had nothing to say in, just to toss jabs at me, PM moderators to complain, write letters, bitch and moan and guess what?......Four years later and I'm still getting published, I'm still invited to teach and speak, I am an editor at two forums and a moderator at another, my book is doing well, AoB and KoB are still up, who's who has been launched, we were at the first National Exhibition as sponsors, and we will be at the World Bonsai Convention this July, as sponsors.

Oh yeah, and after my few years in the art, my bonsai are also doing quite well. ;)

(What this forum needs is a Trunk Monkey so we can keep on topic and get rid of the master baiters and trouble makers)


Living the dream,



Will


Wow Will, that was a good laugh...thanks for that. You skirted my original question so I will assume that you did put words into my mouth by editing my original post you quoted. You have also skirted the issue about the way you treated one of your sponsers. But I understand, you needed to throw out your resume once again. Thats cool, I know it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy.

Having 500 trees in the ground means nothing, anyone can do that. Its what you do with them that counts. So far no one has seen anything. Just like the trees you post, they are nothing either, I have seen a few descent trees but nothing great or even good. Every article you have written that I am aware of is the same stuff that has been said before. You aren't a literati inventor and the content has been written before. Sure you are published, thats cool good for you. That means you are book smart, can repeat what you have read before, put it on paper and submit to bonsai magazines that are in desperate need of articles anyways. You gotta remember Will, I know how these things work, and I have been approacthed to submit an article to the BIGGEST magazine about one of MY trees!!! I turned it down. When I do though, it will be ORIGINAL Content of BONSAI. Pretty novel idea huh?? Just me, my tree, the work I have done on it and it will be in big glossy prints on your coffee table!

And to be very frank with ya, I wouldn't brag about those 3way demo things you do. I have tried not to pisssss all over myself when I first saw those results. That is beginner bonsai as its best. That proves that you have a knack for writing about and not doing bonsai. You have your place in bonsai, I commend you for co founding AoB, Kob, that is cool and I know people enjoy looking at them. I also know that magazines and such need some articles from time to time, that is all excellent. Heck even the county fair needs to get rid of some ribbons from time to time for a bonzai from a published article writer. Blue ribbions are nice. If it wasn't you doing all this it would be someone else....

And for 6 years in bonsai that isn't bad....what have I done you ask, or what is my excuse??? Hmmm. well, lets see I have a yard full of excellent bonsai, a dozen world class trees and over 100 killer collected trees that have never been seen before in pictures. So while you are building your resume writing articels, I am building my resume on actual trees, trees that will be in the magazines in the future, trees that will bring me respect because can style a tree and trees that will provide you with something to write about!

Seems I have most of my bases covered for becoming a bonsai artist in the future.... something you can't say (or atleast you haven't proved yet)

Oh, in regards to Emorrins question that you jabbed me for. Atleast I geave home some sort of info letting him know trees produce mycorriza when healthy. You told him to research it...wow that was great advice.

So, carry on with the articles, and please do me a favor and learn from some of the pros that come through... people like Marco, Walter, etc.. those guys that travel the world teaching bonsai. You can really benefit from what they have to offer, then you can apply what you learned to your trees. They will thank you for that.

Jason
 
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Will these are not linked on page 6-8 and I doubt any other of this thread, The problem with having any sought of sensible discusion with you is forgone by having to wade through the crap.

My apologies,

It appears that the post keeps jumping around, possibly because of deleted posts, editing, or some other reason, but it is post #85 http://bonsainut.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19930&postcount=85 (wow, 100 posts ago...) that once was on page 7 and 8, but the link will take you to it, see the last lines under "references"

Will
 
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Wow Will, that was a good laugh...thanks for that. You skirted my original question
The subject of this thread is superthrive, not me. Do you have anything intelligent to add to the discussion? Okay, even something non-intelligent that is on topic?

But I understand, you needed to throw out your resume once again. Thats cool, I know it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy.
You implied that I did not actually do bonsai, in response I said I did and also listed everything else I did that revolves around bonsai and the bonsai community. I know it makes you green all over...

Having 500 trees in the ground means nothing, anyone can do that. Its what you do with them that counts. So far no one has seen anything. Just like the trees you post, they are nothing either, I have seen a few descent trees but nothing great or even good. Every article you have written that I am aware of is the same stuff that has been said before. You aren't a literati inventor and the content has been written before.
And yet another attack or two, Jason, I have been told differently by much more experienced people than yourself, you'll forgive me if I go with those who actually have the experience to judge such things?

Sure you are published, thats cool good for you. That means you are book smart, can repeat what you have read before, put it on paper and submit to bonsai magazines that are in desperate need of articles anyways.
Thank you, but don't forget paid to write them ;) And don't for a second believe I just repeat what I have read before, untruths such as these make you look a little foolish my friend.

How about an original idea that has never before been done, that is the in vitro cultivation of mushrooms as accent plants?
Photo Essay: Mushrooms
Simplified Cultivation of Mushrooms for Accents and Kusamono

An origin of bonsai never discussed before?
Babylon: The Origin of Bonsai?

Seeking a better definition of bonsai?
Defining Bonsai

Or other originals?
Talent - The Holy Grail of Bonsai
In Defense of the Mallsai
Ownership and Artistic Credit in Bonsai

Or how about compiling information never before published together and presenting my own experience and thoughts so that bonsaists around the world can access it?
A Brief Exploration of the Literati Style
The Future of Bonsai, The Third Dimension
The Myth of the Single Front
Bonsai: Living Sculpture, not Living Painting (With Attila Soos)
Back to Back: Instant Bonsai (With John Dixon)
Finding the Tree Within (with Rudi Julianto)
Debunking the Myths of Bonsai
Grow Boxes and Training Pots

You gotta remember Will, I know how these things work, and I have been approacthed to submit an article to the BIGGEST magazine....
Yep, been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

You have your place in bonsai, I commend you for co founding AoB, Kob, that is cool and I know people enjoy looking at them.
Thanks again.

And for 6 years in bonsai that isn't bad....
That was less than 5 years, thanks.


You told him to research it...wow that was great advice.
Thanks, I think so. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life.


Thanks, now can we finally discuss the subject?


Will
 
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bretts

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Will you jump straight past the facts and spend your time dribbling bull.You suggested that The Auxin used in Superthrive is listed as a pesticide. It was suggested to you that the auxin in the product you suggested contained the same Auxin. It has also been suggested that being registed as a pesticide gives no reason to stop using it.
Your lack of response denotes the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about and would rather just argue about yourself. You state you want to stick to the facts but as soon as they are presented you run a mile.
From Myself
Yes we have been going around in circles that is your fault not mine to solve this I am taking this one fact at a time.
So If we are to move onto the sprouting issue let us be clear on were we are with Auxin as a pesticide.
1) Auxin is very versitile and can be used as a pesticide and herbicide. There is no reason why we should not use it for root regeneration because of this.
2) Superthrive contains auxin as Naphthalene Acetic Acid. Dip"N"Grow(that Will recomends to use in stead of Superthrive) contains auxin as Naphthalene Acetic Acid. As do many of the rooting hormones.
So we can not state that superthive should not be used because it contains Naphthalene Acetic Acid as auxin.
Once we clarify this piont I will address the sprouting issue.
 
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king kong

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"It is my personal opinion that the sucess by bonsaist using Foliar Feeding can be directly attributed to the mixture running off unto the soil, not through absorption through the leaves." (Please keep your opinions to yourself until you learn what you are talking about WH, you have gotten over your head, stick with rabbits and Cannabis.)

Sounds like it should be KoBGate scandal to me.
 
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Will you jump straight past the facts and spend your time dribbling bull.You suggested that The Auxin used in Superthrive is listed as a pesticide. It was suggested to you that the auxin in the product you suggested contained the same Auxin. It has also been suggested that being registed as a pesticide gives no reason to stop using it.
Your lack of response denotes the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about and would rather just argue about yourself. You state you want to stick to the facts but as soon as they are presented you run a mile.


More misinformation, lies, and twisted words. I never said you shouldn't use superthrive because it was a pesticide, I simply stated it was. I didn't "suggest" it was a pesticide, I showed proof that it was a registered pesticide.

However, what you skipped past once again is that the auxin you defend in superthrive is USED TO PREVENT SPROUTING ON TREES and I mentioned that I thought that it wasn't wise for a bonsaists to dowse their bonsai with it.

Yeah, I'm running.... lol




Will
 

Vance Wood

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Will you only feel that the post was intelligent because he may be agreeing with you. Congratulations on repeating all of your accomplishments verbatim from every other thread on here. I just want to say this. everything you mentioned boils down to being decent with computers and being able to parrot what you've read. I never see you offer advice from initial styling. You offer refinement but never do you take the challenge to step up and tell someone what to do with raw stock. You browbeat people and act like a jerk the majority of the time on this forum yet seem to never step out of line on YOUR forums. Why is that? Maybe because you know your nothing without Robert Steven's support and understand he would never allow you to act like a spoiled child. There are other opinions than yours Will and most people got along fine in Bonsai before ever hearing of you and will if they never do. You demand all this respect yet refuse to give any of your own. Pretty sad for what may be a talented individual (if you ask him).

You're wrong Steve; it was an intelligent question, on topic, and non adversarial. The answer followed in the same manner. In Will's article the claims of the product were challenged and debunked (in Will's opinion) through accessing research and providing the results of that search for knowledge. In the subsequent fire storm, all Will has asked is for someone to provide equal evidence for their point of view--contrary research. Which is exactly what Will suggested to the question you seem to take offense at. Instead he has received innuendos, assaults, attacks and accusations questioning his eligibility to continue his membership in the human race.

So let me sum up this whole thing. SuperThrive is good because Will Heath is and a$$ #ol@. That makes a lot of sense?---but that is essentially what the argument has turned into. And still, those of you are passionate about SuperThrive have not provided the research to prove that it is what it is claimed to be.

Sadly, I don't think SuperThrive is the issue, Will Heath is the issue. Some of you seek to destroy the man by any means, and will viciously attack anything he says anywhere he says it.
 

bretts

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Will I asked you to show documented proof that we should not use superthrive, when knowing that it contains auxin. The only document you put forward was that Naphthalene Acetic Acid was registerd as a pesticide. It is not a far call to think that you were sugesting this as a reason not to use it.
So I guess stating the auxin in superthrive is registerd as a pesticide was a useless bit of information that was of no use in this discution. I hope your next attempt at proving that superthrive is snake oil is better than that.
However, what you skipped past once again is that the auxin you defend in superthrive is USED TO PREVENT SPROUTING ON TREES and I mentioned that I thought that it wasn't wise for a bonsaists to dowse their bonsai with it.
The above reason is exactly why I will keep this one subject as a time so you don't get lost.
I will address all issues you put forward. You could speed this up considerably by making more sense.

I would now ask you to show were you got the information that superthrive is used to prevent spouting on trees. This is not to prove that it does but more to clarify what your problem with this is.
Keeping count(as you state the last documented proof was not to suggest we should not use it) this will still be the first documented proof you will supply that the auxin in superthrive is of no use in bonsai culture.
 
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bretts

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By Vance
So let me sum up this whole thing. SuperThrive is good because Will Heath is and a$$ #ol@. That makes a lot of sense?---but that is essentially what the argument has turned into. And still, those of you are passionate about SuperThrive have not provided the research to prove that it is what it is claimed to be.
What do you call this Vance
Enhanced Seedling Root Development in Eight Conifer Species Induced by Naphthalene Acetic Acid
D. A. SEABY and C. SELBY
Department of Agriculture Newforge Lane, Belfast, BT9 5PX, Northern Ireland

Seedlings of eight conifer species, Pinus contorta, Pinus sylvestris, Pinus nigra, Larix kaempferi, Picea abies, Picea sitchensis, Pseudotsuga, nenziesii and Abies grandis, were treated with auxin, in pot and nursery experiments. Dilute solutions of naphthalene acetic acid (NAA) were applied at two treatment times, just before and just after cotyledon expansion. Lateral root numbers were increased by up to 20 times on responsive species. Sensitivity varied considerably, the three pine species showing a much greater response than the two species of spruce. In most cases the mean number of induced roots increased steadily with increasing auxin concentration. Forest nursery results showed that NAA could provide an inexpensive method for stimulating lateral root formation near the soil surface. Practical nursery aspects of treatment are briefly discussed.

Lateral root numbers were increased by up to 20 times on responsive species.

Will has documented articles that state one ingredient of superthrive is of no use.
He has not given ANY documented studies/proof that show the other active ingredient in Superthrive Auxin is no use in bonsai horticulture. In effect he has addressed this issue not about Superthrive but about B1 and has addressed the facts of auxin with his own conclusions or opinion. He uses his article on B1 to claim Superthrive is snake oil. That article does not address Auxin in Superthrive.
 
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Well, after pages and pages of insults, slights, outright lies, misinformation, personal attacks, and off topic discussions, not one single person has provided and solid, documented research that supports any valid use for superthrive. All have been an all too usual attempt to divert the subject.

At the end, my article, its sources, and the premise that superthrive is a snake oil has not been rebuked.

The only documented research that has been shown is that auxins have a beneficial purpose, but the auxin in superthrive has been proved to be a preventative of sprouting, not a particularly desirable trait for bonsaists, this research posted did more to support my premise than weaken it.

Let's review the actual, supported facts about superthrive:


B-1 has not been shown to have any beneficial qualities at all for plants. Plants make their own thiamine and studies have shown that plants given plain old water did better than those given B-1.

The auxin in superthrive is a registered pesticide and is also used to prevent sprouting on trees.

The label makes many outrageous claims such as the product to win World War Two, all which are unsupported and can not be proved.

The developer of superthrive won a life time achievement award, not for the product, but for marketing and advertisement. I certainly think he deserved it.

These are the facts, no conclusions, no speculations, just facts supported by documented research of trained professionals.

Everyone can come to their own conclusions based on these facts, or they can ignore them and keep spending money on this snake-oil, that choice is theirs to make.

I know I won't be separated from my money by purchasing this product.

You BT'ers can keep attacking, insulting, and blowing smoke all you want to, but all that doesn't change the facts as presented.

If anyone has anything on topic and intelligent to add, perhaps one single thing supporting the use of superthrive, I'll be more than happy to consider it, until then, superthrive remains a snake oil.



Will
 
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Will has documented articles that state one ingredient of superthrive is of no use.
He has not given ANY documented studies/proof that show the other active ingredient in Superthrive Auxin is no use in bonsai horticulture. In effect he has addressed this issue not about Superthrive but about B1 and has addressed the facts of auxin with his own conclusions or opinion. He uses his article on B1 to claim Superthrive is snake oil. That article does not address Auxin in Superthrive.

False.

I have shown that the auxin in superthrive is a registered pesticide and that it is used to prevent sprouting on non-fruit bearing trees, sources, links, and references have been given. I have also said that using a chemical that prevents sprouting is unwise in bonsai, where many times we not only want, but need sprouting. You don't have to be a genius to understand this.

You have also admitted to not using superthrive.

I refuse to type out the same words over and over and over again, I do not have the time to present the same documented facts to you every hour on the hour. Read the thread, sources for everything I posted are here. Hell, it took me four posts to show you the links to the auxin you defend, because you couldn't find where they were first posted, even though I re-posted them for you.

You have no case, your sole defense is the auxin contained in superthrive. Its disadvantages have been listed, and it is common knowledge that other sources for rooting hormones are available where the user can choose the percentage used as needed to address different species and uses. You are defending an auxin that prevents sprouting and which is available only in one percentage in superthrive. No one should use suoerthrive simply for the auxin contained in it and I seriously doubt that anyone does. As mentioned, there are far better sources of rooting hormones available.

Give it up. I'll respond to you when and if you have anything solid to stand on.



Will
 
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king kong

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Sadly, I don't think SuperThrive is the issue, Will Heath is the issue. Some of you seek to destroy the man by any means, and will viciously attack anything he says anywhere he says it.[/QUOTE] Vance Wood
...................................................................................................................
"A little knowledge on how a tree grows will put these people out of buisiness" WH

"There is no reason to hang unto or put faith in snake oils that have been shown to be ineffective. There is even less reason to support the manufactures or sellers of such magic potions." WH

Mr. Wood, take a deep breath. Who is seeking to destroy who. Can you read? Do you have the ability to understand these statements are way over the top? Do you understand who made these statements? Do you understand this type of biased bs is what started this?
 
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bretts

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After all this Talk of documented proof it seems that the only pionts that you now use to suggest the Auxin in superthrive is no use to us thus making it a snake oil are:

The auxin in superthrive is a registered pesticide and is also used to prevent sprouting on trees.
After discussing the documented proof about the auxin being used as a pesticide you make no claim that gives any reason not to use it?
That leaves:
used to prevent sprouting on trees


Although you take the time to post in essay form about how you are being attached you can't find the time to link to supposed already shown documented proof that Auxin is used to prevent sprouting on trees.
As stated the main reason I want this information of you is to understand what your problem with this is. Any way I will now address this.
If you had any understanding of how a tree uses the natural hormone Auxin to regulate it's growth you would understand this is the exact reason why it can work to help a stressed repotted or collected tree.
See here for Hormone basics including Auxin,
http://cmg.colostate.edu/gardennotes/145.pdf
The Auxin is produced by the growing tips as this flows down the trunk it stops other lower shoots growing. This is Apical dominance . When the auxin gets to the roots it tells the roots to grow. When a tree is growing well it has all the auxin it needs. Studies have shown that adding auxin at this time is of little use. But if a tree is lacking in Auxin production ie no tip growth then added auxin can be of great benifit. This is shown by field studies such as

Enhanced Seedling Root Development in Eight Conifer Species Induced by Naphthalene Acetic Acid
D. A. SEABY and C. SELBY
Department of Agriculture Newforge Lane, Belfast, BT9 5PX, Northern Ireland

Seedlings of eight conifer species, Pinus contorta, Pinus sylvestris, Pinus nigra, Larix kaempferi, Picea abies, Picea sitchensis, Pseudotsuga, nenziesii and Abies grandis, were treated with auxin, in pot and nursery experiments. Dilute solutions of naphthalene acetic acid (NAA) were applied at two treatment times, just before and just after cotyledon expansion. Lateral root numbers were increased by up to 20 times on responsive species. Sensitivity varied considerably, the three pine species showing a much greater response than the two species of spruce. In most cases the mean number of induced roots increased steadily with increasing auxin concentration. Forest nursery results showed that NAA could provide an inexpensive method for stimulating lateral root formation near the soil surface. Practical nursery aspects of treatment are briefly discussed.

So added auxin can have the effect of reducing shoot growth in favour of root growth. That sounds exactly what we want when we first repot our trees. Getting the roots established as fast as possible. This extra root growth translates to more of the hormone Gibberellins being produced by the root tips. As Gibberellins stimulate shoot growth we now have an advanced root system that is sending plenty of shoot growing hormones to the tip. Now if you use usual tip pinching practises to promote what ever type of growth you are after you have a tree that is busting to put out shoots.

Added auxin to a stressed tree will suppress shoot growth in favour of root growth. This is only temerary until the tree is growing strong and the hormones again balance them selves out.
 
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Vance Wood

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What do you call this Vance


Will has documented articles that state one ingredient of superthrive is of no use.
He has not given ANY documented studies/proof that show the other active ingredient in Superthrive Auxin is no use in bonsai horticulture. In effect he has addressed this issue not about Superthrive but about B1 and has addressed the facts of auxin with his own conclusions or opinion. He uses his article on B1 to claim Superthrive is snake oil. That article does not address Auxin in Superthrive.

I was not necessarily pointing my remarks at you; you at least had some documentation. However what would you call this if not antagonistic? Your words in red.

February 3rd, 2009, 07:41 AM

Sorry Will I have had you in my sights the last few days and you my friend have now stepped into my class. I gave up trying to sought the facts from emotion and inuendo in your posts I skipped most of the last couple of pages. When I feel inclined I may go back and review but at the moment it is like reading a letter from one of my daughters mother. It is to difficult to read because after the first paragraph I now almost exactly the bull that follows.
Quote:
I know you are just dodging a bullet and not being forthcomming.
Ther reason I have had you in my sights


It is reasonable to have a disagreement and to offer different facts, but usually this is not done by prefacing with a slap in the face.
 
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king kong

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Just so you understand Mr. Wood, An untruthful statement about a person/company or wishing harm to a person/company that harms that person's/company's reputation in the community is Slander and possibly Libel because it is reaching a large audience.
 

Vance Wood

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Just so you understand Mr. Wood, An untruthful statement about a person/company or wishing harm to a person/company that harms that person's/company's reputation in the community is Slander.

It is only slander if it is wrong, and malicious; and then there is the issue of proof. If Will backs up what he says with the research he has offered then someone might make the argument he is wrong but the slander, if any, belongs in the court of the research that shows SuperThrive is not what it is boasted to be. There are many bonsaiists all over the country that do not touch this stuff for reasons of their own. If it was as good as they claim it to be every body would be using it, or something like it. That of course brings up the issue of false advertising?

However I still hold to my original conclusion: This is not about SuperThrive it's about Will Heath, who is he, and why is he---and why isn't he dead?
 

bretts

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Your words in red.
Yep that was pretty funny. I still stand by those words. It is predictable that you would use this instead of discussing how you disregard the facts that I have presented all through this thread that prove my introduction to my argument:)

you at least had some documentation
I would suggest that I have the most documentation. I dare you to count the documented proof of Wills against mine in our discussions on Auxin in superthrive and it's benifits

One stating an increase of twenty times the root growth!
 
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