JBP pruned, pulled and wired

[Paradox]

First major styling and branch selection on this JBP.
Pruned a few branches, pulled a bunch of needles and wired it.
It doesnt look like a shrub any more.

Still needs a lot of work and filling in, back budding, ramification etc.

I know some of the wiring is kinda bad. Im still very much learning and getting the hang of it and some of the heavier gauge copper is hard for me to get placed right sometimes.

 

[Adair M]

First major styling and branch selection on this JBP.
Pruned a few branches, pulled a bunch of needles and wired it.
It doesnt look like a shrub any more.

Still needs a lot of work and filling in, back budding, ramification etc.

I know some of the wiring is kinda bad. Im still very much learning and getting the hang of it and some of the heavier gauge copper is hard for me to get placed right sometimes.

View attachment 128124

Yeah, a little heavy on the wire, there Doxy. I believe the way I would have wound the wire around the the first two branches would have been to start under the lowest branch on the right. Go up behind the trunk, and brought the wire up underneath the left branch. You only need one wrap around the trunk.

Coming up from under puts the. First wrap around the branch about 1/2 inch off the trunk on the top of the branch. I think you'll find the wire holds much better than trying to start by bringing across the top to begin with. See where your wire is on the beginning of the right branch? If you try to pull that branch down, your wire is actually preventing it from moving down.

About heavy wire: thick copper can be hard to spiral around a branch if your working (guiding) finger is right there pushing on the wire right at the branch. You have no leverage. The trick is to hold the wire farther out, maybe 4 or 5 inches away. And use your whole arm to spiral the wire around. Use your "other" hand to guide the wire on the branch by holding the wire that's been applied to the tree just a little behind the point where the wire is bending as you wrap. The "other" hand moves along the branch as the wire is spun on, holding and guiding as it goes.

 

[Paradox]

Yeah, a little heavy on the wire, there Doxy. I believe the way I would have wound the wire around the the first two branches would have been to start under the lowest branch on the right. Go up behind the trunk, and brought the wire up underneath the left branch. You only need one wrap around the trunk.

Coming up from under puts the. First wrap around the branch about 1/2 inch off the trunk on the top of the branch. I think you'll find the wire holds much better than trying to start by bringing across the top to begin with. See where your wire is on the beginning of the right branch? If you try to pull that branch down, your wire is actually preventing it from moving down.

About heavy wire: thick copper can be hard to spiral around a branch if your working (guiding) finger is right there pushing on the wire right at the branch. You have no leverage. The trick is to hold the wire farther out, maybe 4 or 5 inches away. And use your whole arm to spiral the wire around. Use your "other" hand to guide the wire on the branch by holding the wire that's been applied to the tree just a little behind the point where the wire is bending as you wrap. The "other" hand moves along the branch as the wire is spun on, holding and guiding as it goes.

Yes I understand what you're saying and yes the wire was not cooperating with me at all with that application...

The lower right branch was, at some point before I got the tree, wired from underneath as you say. The wire was left on too long and there is a large, old wire scar there right now. I agree it would have been best to wire under like you said, but I thought it might be better to try and avoid that wire scar for now.

I am not trying to lower that branch any more than it is. I was only using it as an anchor for one of the higher branches on the right. There is actually 2 branches there. One you can see I cut back to smaller branches growing out of it and the other one is behind it and longer that I left in place for now. I know at some point I am probably going to have to pick one of those branches and cut the other one.

Thank you for the comments though. I need to learn to do it the right way. Ill probably redo it in a year.

 

[Smoke]

Looks marvelous for a first style. Nice line on the trunk.

 

[YukiShiro]

Nice one paradox,

lovely material, and very nice first styling, if I could add something I would take of that heavy back branch on top, it points away from the viewer and looks like the foliage is not in close enough, those four small branches in front of that branch could form a more compact apex for you,

what is your plans for that branch(back branch on top)?

best regards
Herman

 

[MichaelS]

It's a nice old tree and it's not as important with a slow growing tree as a young one, but we really need to watch wire crossing the branch/trunk horizontally. This effectively stops the flow of sap and will usually be the first place the wire imbeds itself.
45 degrees to the branch is best.

 

[sorce]

Damn!
Great trunk line!

Of all the pines we see in all stages....
This is my favorite by far.
I want this one!

The roots hold it well too, and I love how the one continues the trunks wiggle.

Where did this stock come from?

Kill!

Sorce

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

nice tree

 

[Dav4]

Good tree, good first styling... and wiring for the first few times with heavier gauge copper can be humbling. Adair has good points on improving your game, but you should feel good about this one.

 

[Anthony]

Beautiful Tree - Para

But gotta say it --------------- Bondage !!!!!!
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Good start. Great trunk movement and branch placement. Work on fanning out the terminals and tipping the buds back up. As a general rule, conifer branches should resemble an outstretched hand, palm up. Deciduous; palm down.

 

[Adair M]

Yes I understand what you're saying and yes the wire was not cooperating with me at all with that application...

The lower right branch was, at some point before I got the tree, wired from underneath as you say. The wire was left on too long and there is a large, old wire scar there right now. I agree it would have been best to wire under like you said, but I thought it might be better to try and avoid that wire scar for now.

I am not trying to lower that branch any more than it is. I was only using it as an anchor for one of the higher branches on the right. There is actually 2 branches there. One you can see I cut back to smaller branches growing out of it and the other one is behind it and longer that I left in place for now. I know at some point I am probably going to have to pick one of those branches and cut the other one.

Thank you for the comments though. I need to learn to do it the right way. Ill probably redo it in a year.

I see that old wire scar. Yes, you do want to avoid placing more wire in the same groove.

Two things:

1) if you are not trying to move the branch from where it intersects the trunk to the first secondary branch on the primary, then there is no need to apply wire to that portion of the branch. (And therefore, all those spirals around the trunk are unnecessary, too.)

Yes, you do need an anchor at the first secondary branch. A proper "Fig 3" at that point will do the job.

I see a guy wire in the back, that looks to be tied to the wire on the first lowest right branch? Or maybe that's another branch behind the one we can see.

If you have two branch coming off the trunk on the same side of the trunk, sometimes you can do a "Fig 3" with them. It won't work on a bar branch like "Fig 7".

2) have a look at Fig 4 below. It looks like your first lowest right branch was wired like that. The old wire scar appears to be where my handwritten arrow "start underneath" is. The illustration shows the wire wrapping around the back of the trunk as it rises to the upper left branch. I propose that you could have wired it so that the wire starts underneath, but wraps in front of the trunk instead. This spirals the wire in the opposite direction, and avoids the old wire scar.



I agree with the others that this was a good first attempt of wiring with copper. But there is far too much wire wrapping around the trunk like Michael said.

 

[Paradox]

But there is far too much wire wrapping around the trunk like Michael said.

+ @MichaelS

I agree. I will redo it next year unless folks feel there is a significant problem with leaving it there for that period of time. I did save those diagrams from another thread to my computer but thank you for posting them.

I've got other trees to practice on in the meantime.

@YukiShiro
That top back branch is indeed too heavy. I hope to get a bud back there to replace it and cut it off someday probably along with the top of the apex moving to the far right. I did alot of worK to it and was nor comfortable removing more than I already did at this time.

Thank you all for the kind words, enthusiasm, and encouragement with this tree. It is definitely nice to be able to see its future potential in it and to be brave enough to do the work it needs to get it there thanks to John Romano and his Kaikou school at NEBG.

@sorce

I purchased this tree from NEBG about 3 years ago. It came from California, but I don't know what nursery. A member here, Rob a.k.a. October, who no longer posts, pointed it out to me when I went up there looking for trees.

 

[Adair M]

Good start. Great trunk movement and branch placement. Work on fanning out the terminals and tipping the buds back up. As a general rule, conifer branches should resemble an outstretched hand, palm up. Deciduous; palm down.
View attachment 128163

Brian, in general I agree.

Except for the "tipping the buds up". A couple of years ago I would have agreed with that, too. Maybe just a little tip up is appropriate for White pines, but not Black. It's very subtle, and has taken me a long time to "get".

JBP tips should be wired out flat, or level. They're very apical dominant, so the new buds will grow up. Here's the subtle part: when we wire the tree out, we don't like to see green foliage hanging below the wood of the branch, right? But wiring straight out points some needles down. So, what do we do? Pull those needles? No. Well, maybe a few stray ones. But the majority of the needles are supported by a little "fishhook" of wire that runs under the needles, and supports them. It keeps them from hanging down. I put a post in the Resources area of the forum with pictures and descriptions.

 

[Adair M]

+ @MichaelS

I agree. I will redo it next year unless folks feel there is a significant problem with leaving it there for that period of time.

I've got other trees to practice on in the meantime.

@YukiShiro
That top back branch is indeed too heavy. I hope to get a bud back there to replace it and cut it off someday probably along with the top of the apex moving to the far right. I did alot of worK to it and was nor comfortable removing more than I already did at this time.

Thank you all for the kind words, enthusiasm, and encouragement with this tree. It is definitely nice to be able to see its future potential in it and to be brave enough to do the work it needs to get it there thanks to John Romano and his Kaikou school at NEBG.

@sorce

I purchased this tree from NEBG about 3 years ago. It came from California, but I don't know what nursery. A member here, Rob a.k.a. October, who no longer posts, pointed it out to me when I went up there looking for trees.

Paradox,

While I don't think it would harm your tree to leave it for a year, I do think you should remove the wire on the lower section and redo it. I think the learning you will get by the process will sink in better, and you would then be able to apply what you've learned on your next wiring job.

I know it did for me! Boon had me rewire one branch three times! (Three times total. First two I had to remove.)

Take some pictures from all four sides of that lower area so I can better see what all is involved. If you're game, I could help you. Remove existing wire, place the first piece, photograph it, post it and we'll discuss it. Then do the second. Photo and discuss. I think you'll find that wiring is much simpler than you made it out to be.

 

[Nybonsai12]

I purchased this tree from NEBG about 3 years ago. It came from California, but I don't know what nursery. A member here, Rob a.k.a. October, who no longer posts, pointed it out to me when I went up there looking for trees.

I remember looking at NEBG's website some time ago and thinking that a lot of the JBP they had looked really similar to stuff sold out of the Muranaka nursery. The pots used, the looks of the soil all looked similar to what Muranaka was using. Of course this is just a guess. If that is the case i recall reading somewhere that Muranaka's pines are all Mikawa, but i don't know if that is true or not. Maybe someone here can confirm.


And great looking tree Sandy, very nice movement and good job on the wiring.

 

[Adair M]

I remember looking at NEBG's website some time ago and thinking that a lot of the JBP they had looked really similar to stuff sold out of the Muranaka nursery. The pots used, the looks of the soil all looked similar to what Muranaka was using. Of course this is just a guess. If that is the case i recall reading somewhere that Muranaka's pines are all Mikawa, but i don't know if that is true or not. Maybe someone here can confirm.


And great looking tree Sandy, very nice movement and good job on the wiring.

That doesn't look like a Muranaka tree to me.

 

[Paradox]

@Adair M

I appreciate that. Thanks
It might not be too bad to do just that part again.

I will look at the tree again and give it some thought.

 

[just.wing.it]

@Paradox
Wow, that's a great looking tree!
Awesome trunk!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Brian, in general I agree.

Except for the "tipping the buds up". A couple of years ago I would have agreed with that, too. Maybe just a little tip up is appropriate for White pines, but not Black. It's very subtle, and has taken me a long time to "get".

JBP tips should be wired out flat, or level.

Haven't you posted this image 50x in the last 6 weeks as the poster child of how everyone should be wiring? Tips up and all. You know what I meant, it is current teaching, and you're obviously demonstrating it here. SMH.