Trident maples, a chronical

Messages
2,774
Reaction score
31
Location
Michigan, USA
USDA Zone
5
All these have great trunks and good possibilities, but they all seem to lack any decent, balanced nebari, as shown. Do you have the nebari buried at this time or are the photos just not showing it? If the nebari still needs to be developed, do you think the bonsai pot environment is the best place to do so?




Will
 

Redwing

Yamadori
Messages
91
Reaction score
3
Location
Pacific NW
USDA Zone
8
All these have great trunks and good possibilities, but they all seem to lack any decent, balanced nebari, as shown. Do you have the nebari buried at this time or are the photos just not showing it? If the nebari still needs to be developed, do you think the bonsai pot environment is the best place to do so?




Will

Dude, Al showed us that they are recent layers. Have you ever layered anything? Do think the nebari just spouts like spring leaves?
 
Messages
2,774
Reaction score
31
Location
Michigan, USA
USDA Zone
5
Dude, Al showed us that they are recent layers. Have you ever layered anything? Do think the nebari just spouts like spring leaves?

Dude, yes I have layered before and I also know that a bonsai pot is not the optimal environment to develop nebari in. A shallow grow box (or larger pot) would allow for enlongation of the roots and induce a balanced, thicker, and visually pleasing nebari in a far shorter time than a bonsai pot.

Furthermore, in post 17 Al said he grew the tree for two years to develop the nebari. I saw no nebari at all in the picture, which is why I politely asked him if it was buried or if it was just not showing in the picture. Now a recent edit says he is three years from exposing the nebari, which answers my question. This will be a very nice trident in three years, once the ramification is done and the nebari is exposed.


Will
 
Last edited:

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,668
Reaction score
20,724
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
Close ups of the base. It will be noted that the base of the trunk has a saw cut in it to help flatten the flare somewhat. It has a wedge driven into it to get a better exit angle on the nebari as it moves away into the pot. This will heal and callous over in about three months. At this time both trees have adaquate nebari under them. The roots just need time to thicken and look proportionate. They will do this in the pot very well. I need these roots to reflect some patina of age rather than just grow to monsterous proportions which would happen in a box. Like I said all the growing I need to do can be done in nursery cans.

Final ageing can be done in show pots. These are not the size pots they will eventually be housed in. These pots are about double what they need to be.

These trees were grown out with steer manure and humic acid in massive proportions. So much that many would say I was crazy.

The tree commenting on two years was not from this group. That tree was an import from Korea and was taken from a larger tree as a layer. It had a wonderful root mass, very fiberous, but no real roots of any stature to speak of. After the photo contest at AoB which this tree was in, it was noted in the comments that eventhough it was a great tree it needed some nebari that showed up in a photo. I agree.

So like any good artist, I listen to my critics and do what is necessaary to improve the image. In this case putting the tree in a five gallon nursery container and girdleing the trees has afforded me the roots I need. Two more years will now complete the image. This can be done in the show pot with no trouble.
 

Attachments

  • 0010001.JPG
    0010001.JPG
    76 KB · Views: 516
  • 0020002.JPG
    0020002.JPG
    96 KB · Views: 582
  • 0030003.JPG
    0030003.JPG
    78.3 KB · Views: 529
  • 0040004.JPG
    0040004.JPG
    95.2 KB · Views: 610
Last edited:

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,668
Reaction score
20,724
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
Black dot represents about where and what size original trunk was.
 

Attachments

  • blacktrunk.jpg
    blacktrunk.jpg
    93.1 KB · Views: 521

R_F

Chumono
Messages
758
Reaction score
10
USDA Zone
9
Hi Al,
I'm starting a similar project this spring with a couple of tridents I have. I'm shooting for sumo-shohin size bonsai. One question for you, my plan is to cut the pencil size trunks back to the first node like you've done(this is where the most movement in the trunk is), then tease out the roots and find a decent flare for future nebari. Then I plan on cutting the root ball back to the roots chosen and growing them on top of a piece of a tile to insure radial roots. Do you think this will make it easier or more difficult to produce nice nebari that is in proportion with the tree?
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,180
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Al,

I encourage you to submit this to ABS Journal, or another bonsai publication. You have a complete editorial package. I would bet any of the bonsai publications would jump at the chance to get an article like this. It can be converted to print, kept in web format, or both.

This is as good as anything I've seen in Bonsai Focus or maybe even Kindai--
 

Bill S

Masterpiece
Messages
2,494
Reaction score
28
Location
Western Massachusetts
USDA Zone
5a
Nice job Al, ggod read, and i agree with Mark. Lots of people are usinf tridents these days and would welcome this.
 

mcpesq817

Omono
Messages
1,810
Reaction score
499
Location
VA
USDA Zone
7
I echo rockm's and Bill's suggestion - really nice job, and very well documented.

Now these are the kinds of articles that make for great contributions to the bonsai community :D
 

cquinn

Shohin
Messages
336
Reaction score
3
I echo rockm's and Bill's suggestion - really nice job, and very well documented.

Now these are the kinds of articles that make for great contributions to the bonsai community :D

I second that one. Thanks for all of your work Al! It will help out a lot of people.
 

DaveV

Shohin
Messages
408
Reaction score
56
Location
Nebraska
USDA Zone
5a
Smoke, I just finished reading your posts. Thank you for sharing your work with all of us. I just wish I could have read your writings on B-talk. Thanks.

Dave V.
 

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,668
Reaction score
20,724
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
Thanks, I wish I could get to the archives of BonsaiTALK myself. I have a lot of stuff there. This is the second time I have lost a buch of writing. Before bonsaiTALK I was a prolific poster at bonsaiPAGE. I had many thread there also. I was there almost four years till the twin towers went down 9-11. Next day... poof, no more bonsai PAGE. Matt Chroust, administrator at bonsaiTALK had just posted an animated wire winding around a stick. I thought it was cool. I went there and signed up. The first guy. A week later PAGE was gone and I found a new home there. I sent out emails to those that I had and we went on to make bonsaiTALK the largest on line community of it's time.

Now with bonsaiTALK gone I find that I have to reinvent the wheel all over again. The good news...the trees look so much better than they did 10 years ago.

Many might wonder why I don't have it on a computer. This is my fifth computer since I started on discussion forums. Many of them just crashed and I lost all that way too. Pictures can be retrieved but what I miss the most is the large formatt pictures that are usefull for magazines. For instance the pictures in this post are from three computers since 2003 when I started this project.

Can you believe some of the pictures are on floppy drives...go figure. Try finding a computer with a floppy drive slot!

Cheers, Al
 

nip

Yamadori
Messages
99
Reaction score
8
Location
Gulf Coast
USDA Zone
8b
Thanks for continuing to show the development of this tree. I read all of your progression series on BT. Forums were created for posts like this one, not posts filled with arguing. Great job, trees looking good.
 

crhabq

Mame
Messages
105
Reaction score
0
Location
albuquerque, nm
USDA Zone
7
Thanks for posting this Al. I've got at least two tridents that I'm eager to try this on. Easily the best post since pjkatich's Making an oval pot - A potter's tale. In Re post 35, it strange, but early today I was thinking that the best way to secure data would be to have it stored on a 5 in. floppy. Or better yet on punch cards. Thanks again for your generosity in sharing this development series.
Would that be #2 grade builders sand?
Ray
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,180
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Al,

Get this published! Editors salivate over detailed, informed articles with photos--I have not seen an article on growing out shohin stock in a while, if at all.
 
Messages
2,774
Reaction score
31
Location
Michigan, USA
USDA Zone
5
I thought there would be leaves and wire but there was only this poor old pitiable wounded lump.
Now be nice, Al never claimed these were finished or even show-able, he simply showed development and did so quite well. Although obviously these have years ahead of them before the scars are healed, the nebari is completed, and fine ramification can be started, Al has developed some good trunks and has documented it well.

Get this published! Editors salivate over detailed, informed articles with photos--I have not seen an article on growing out shohin stock in a while, if at all.
I don't know about editors, but some publishers certainly do. Considering Al's laminations about losing things he has done in the past, he should consider a longer lasting publication such as magazines.


Will
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,180
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
"I don't know about editors, but some publishers certainly do."

Um, I don't really understand the clarification--editor/publisher--whatever--in this case, as bonsai magazines tend to be small operations where one person holds the job of many. But if you want to split hairs...

Here's what I do know of the larger publishing world:

As an editor and managing editor of three or four publications over the last two decades, I don't know of any publishers that actually assign or find many articles. While publishers at bonsai publications may do that, it's not really the norm. I've assigned articles to writers to produce on spec. I also find experts to writes articles for me.

Here's the bottom line for an editor, editor/publisher---Anyone with the intricate expertise shown in this article, who comes to you with a series of photos to illustrate it-- would have most editors jumping to get it. It is not a long grey mantra of theory. It is experienced, knowledgeable and illustrated...

Publishers' roles are more typically behind the scenes at the vast majority of publications I've worked for, or with, as an editor and as a freelancer. They are more associated with bringing in advertising than in procuring and assigning articles. Usually, in the larger publishing world, their presence in editorial operations is a sign that the publication is either not legitimate--as in editorial content is driven by what an advertiser wants, in big trouble financially, or layoffs are about.
 
Last edited:
Messages
2,774
Reaction score
31
Location
Michigan, USA
USDA Zone
5
I have no idea what you are arguing about or why you wish to, I have had many articles published in bonsai magazines and have worked with publishers and/or editors from all of them in one way or another. Editors, publishers, usually in many cases it boils down to simply editors edit, publishers publish, although in smaller operations, as you said, these jobs may cross.

I have also been published in non-bonsai publications but since that world is vastly different, I refrain from using it as a comparison.

As I said, Al should indeed get this published.


Will
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,180
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Sure, Will...whatever.
 
Top Bottom