Larch Noob - first season advice please!

[MartyB]

Hello all,

I picked up a Larch Decidua reject from last year at a nursery local to me right before the buds broke about a month ago. I knew trimming and repotting season was well underway for this species so I cut off the lower quarter or so of the nursery pot soil and dropped it into a training pot without doing too much root pruning and put some well draining soil around it. I also did some initial pruning (which consisted of cutting off the top third as it was rather tall) and cutting back the lower branches to a shorter more proportional size. I left a few longer ones on the top because I am not familiar with these trees so I need to get a grip on their watering needs and pruning characteristics. The tree has now broken its buds and all remaining branches are well covered with needles about 1cm long so far. it has a rather fat base which I think will make a great tree, assuming I can grow it correctly.

My questions are these;

1) when I got the tree the buds were quite visible on the naked branches - they all seem to have broken into needles, which is great. I read that these dont back-bud however, so how do next year's buds form? Do they necessarily always form on new growth? If thats true, then how do you masters all seem to have larch trees with 5cm or less fat branches around the top of the tree and little tiny short and well-budded sprouts coming off them?

2) when is it appropriate to prune for overall structure? as I said I left a few branches at the top that had well defined buds on them as they were as I didnt want to over-prune it and weaken the tree as I had dropped it into a new pot as well.

Any globally important information would be welcome as well, I am dipping my toe in the world of conifers and I have never tended to one before, so all help is welcome!

 

[Driver170]

Any pictures

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

1. A bud becomes a branch, with new buds on it. Larch don't back bud but they have dormant buds near most/some internodes. Depending on those is a gamble.
Masters could cut back to one bud, then develop a twig from it with new buds.

2. Pruning for structure in larches, to my limited knowledge, is done after the next years buds have set.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Pruning for structure can be done in autumn, but probably best in late winter, early spring, right about the time you repot. If buds have begun opening, it is too late to repot or do major root work. Wiring is also done at the same time. Prune, wire, and then if needed repot, all in late winter or early spring.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

There's a late spring, early summer pruning for ramification, but I am not sure of the exact timing.

 

[MartyB]

thanks for all your replies, I dont have any pics available I will try and take some. Its not very pretty at the moment as I didnt want to go too drastic in any direction, so out of fear I left a few longer branches near the top below where I chopped the trunk as they had many visible buds and I wanted to save some possible energy to the tree. in any case, pics to follow.

any tell tale signs on Larch if I am over or underwatering it? I am sort of using the force right now, its growing lime greenish needles rather well near the top and somewhat shorter and slower lower down but they are growing, and some green is definately starting to take over on all branches. Since its not entirely bonsai substrate as I didnt bare-root it, its a bit tough to see the moisture level as the top tends to dry off somewhat but digging down I find moisture so I am tip-toeing around the pot right now.

 

[MartyB]

 

[MartyB]

 

[MartyB]

so this is what I snapped just now. originally the tree was about 1.5m tall and had a crazy bush structure down right to the soil level. I left more branches on it for now until I figure out how these grow, eventually that will get thinned out. also I will want to use more adequate substrate, below the dark nursery soil is a layer of pumice I put in the bottom to help drainage. And I left a couple of longer branches on the top to not take out too much vigor, while I grow it for its first season and get to know its habits and needs. I wanted to figure out the styling later. The tree had zero buds open when I did the reductions to it in the first place.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

That's quite the straight trunk you have there!
Again, I dont know much about larches but seeing those branches with unopened buds kind of worries me. Do they have that golden glow to them?

I would clip off those long shoots at the top either way, now, to break the apical dominance that might be causing the rest of the tree to lay back or die back even. You kind of.. Did a reversed strategical pruning. The tree is sending all its energy to the highest shoots now "because it want to become the biggest and baddest tree by nature." In bonsai some would like to counter that and keep them small. For that to happen, we need to redirect energy towards the rest of the tree by making sure no branch becomes overly dominant. Balance, in a sense.

 

[MartyB]

Well that longish branch at the top was not always its apex, there were many more higher before I cut that part off. Lower buds are green and opening albeit a bit slower than the ones as you go up the tree. And agreed the trunk is currently quite straight, i was going to prune back to a new leader eventually and try for some movement as I learn to grow this tree.

Cutting off that top branch now at this stage is a good idea? I am less worried about style at this point and only concerned with the tree having enough energy to progress this season to the next

 

[Tieball]

And agreed the trunk is currently quite straight, i was going to prune back to a new leader eventually and try for some movement as I learn to grow this tree.

My favorite Larches are those with a straight trunk, for the most part, and planted on an angle....a gentle lean. Quiet, healthy magestic power.

 

[MartyB]

Here are the buds on the lowest branch. They are open, a half to a third of the size of the highest open needles

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Yet they are closer to the roots. This means something is asking too much energy and getting it too.
I would cut the top branches to the size that allows the dieback of 2 buds. So if you want to keep 3, cut to 5 buds.
But if you don't do that, most energy is directed towards those apical branches. This means later on that the bottom half of the tree could(!) be lost due to natural abscission. Branches die naturally if there's enough other branches to support life. That seems to be happening here; the top is taking over and the bottom seems to be succumbing to that.

 

[MartyB]

well I took your advice and gathered my courage to cut back reasonably hard those last few branches at the top. I am just worried I did it too late in the season and wasted some energy with those buds, as they have been open for about 2 weeks now. hopefully this Larch is a vigorous grower. I had left them out of inexperience and after taking off 30% of the top of the tree I didnt want to deprive it too much

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

My own European larches have proven tough to kill, otherwise I would have advised to leave it.
I'm betting that it will pull through with maybe a lost bud here or there at most. But that's why i advised to leave some extra ;-)

 

[MartyB]

well I am glad you have some when you said you didnt know much about Larches I assumed you didnt tend to any. I am taking baby steps here, its my first and so some hand holding is appreciated. I didnt know what to expect before those buds opened

 

[Hyn Patty]

Oh, I hope it does well for you! I love larches! I can never find any around here so I ordered European Larch seeds to get started. So I'm right with you in needing to learn everything I can about them.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I started a few seeds last year. One piece of advice: never let the seedlings dry out!
They can take a pretty hard beating, but drought seems to be what kills them all. I'm not sure about the adult stage.
In adult trees I see a lot of aborted and dead branches, so I figured they do the same as other conifers: as soon as a branch is in the negative (costing more energy than it can create) it will just die off. So if you want to keep larches low, keep the energy flowing towards those lower buds. There's always a way to make a new apex, but creating new lower branches is quite the hassle.

As far as my knowledge on larches, it has been limited to 2 years of fooling around with them. I collected mine 2 summers ago, so this is the 3rd summer we're entering. I didn't do much with them yet other than repotting and some very light pruning.
But there's a bonsai mirai video out there, about spring fundamentals (or was it energy distribution?) in which they prune a larch. That might be handy for some people.

 

[Hyn Patty]

Thanks for the tips, Wires_Guy_wires. As these are moving up onto a mountain in NC where it rains a heck of a lot, drying out may not be a problem. At least for the first few years I'll have them in the ground. Nonetheless, duly noted. I can always wick them or put them on a watering system to help insure they get what they need should I not be home. I'd hate to loose them. Such pretty trees.