Spindly Pine advice

TCGreen

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Hi all,

I picked this up and it was very wild and spindly.
I've tidied it up and got rid of crossing branches (it has lots of elbow branches that are pretty ugly and I'm not sure if they can be worked with??)

I have crudely wired and tried to shape it admittedly.
The more I look the more I think reduce the height significantly.
I'm torn between feeling like the trunk and some branches have potential and looking and thinking its a bit of a clanger.
What would you folks suggest?
Also what is it,? the old guy I got it off had it labelled as a Pinus banksiana but I think he maybe gets his idents mixed up from time to time.
Many thanks

TC
 

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Bonsai Nut

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The strength of your pine is going to come from the health of the roots. I am immediately suspicious when I see any pre-bonsai in a black nursery pot. How long has it been there? What does the soil look like? How are the roots? The foliage density of your pine is going to be greatly impacted by the root care. It may be a little too late to repot your pine, unless you live pretty far north. Where are you?

Whether it is a Jack pine or not, it is almost certainly a single flush pine. When the time comes to start ramifying the foliage, you will want to candle pinch and NOT cut the candles off. However this year don't touch the candles at all, since we are interested in turbo-charging growth.

I like this pine and think it has some interesting character. However I don't like the upper section, which is too long and too spindly (in my opinion). I would remove it, leaving a short jin (no longer than 3"). That will refocus the strength of the tree on the lower branches. Suddenly the tree will have much more foliage relative to its scale. If you can still repot it into a large flat container, the tree should perk up considerably.


pine.jpg
 

TCGreen

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Thanks, funnily enough I was going to ask if I could repot but suspected its too late. I'm northern England so it's still pretty chilly.

I just ordered a pot and it arrived for a japanese honeysuckle I have but it's way too big for that tree I've realised. So I'll pot it in this and change soil and take your advice re top and jin.
 

Bonsai Nut

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Thanks, funnily enough I was going to ask if I could repot but suspected its too late. I'm northern England so it's still pretty chilly.

I just ordered a pot and it arrived for a japanese honeysuckle I have but it's way too big for that tree I've realised. So I'll pot it in this and change soil and take your advice re top and jin.
When I said "repot" I meant in a flat growing container similar to this:

2401B-Deep-Propagation.jpg

It doesn't have to be plastic - anything of similar dimensions will do. You want it wide and shallow, versus narrow and deep, because it will maximize oxygen in the soil, allow for easy watering with fewer dead spots, and force the tree to grow roots outwards versus straight down.

Don't move it into a bonsai pot if you want to increase strength. You want to let the roots run a little bit - as long as they run outwards. Once you get it as strong as you want, you can move it from this propagation flat into a bonsai pot in a year or two.

I would think you'd still be ok to repot a pine in Northern England... but I'll wait to see what the locals think. It isn't just a case of the timing of the spring, but the fact that you have relatively mild summers.
 

HorseloverFat

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Are you left-handed?

You run wire OPPOSITE the way I coil.

Neat Pinus! It’s got some potential.

Good advice has already been “slung” your way.

🤓

Edit: I see it now.. it’s just on a few branches..

Are you ambidextrous?
 

Adair M

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Are you left-handed?

You run wire OPPOSITE the way I coil.

Neat Pinus! It’s got some potential.

Good advice has already been “slung” your way.

🤓

Edit: I see it now.. it’s just on a few branches..

Are you ambidextrous?
Wire has to be applied both clockwise AND counter-clockwise. Your post makes no sense.

That said, the OP’s wiring could use improvement.
 

HorseloverFat

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Wire has to be applied both clockwise AND counter-clockwise. Your post makes no sense.

That said, the OP’s wiring could use improvement.
Can you tell me a little more? Because this is not how (I don’t think) I’ve been doing it...I love to learn.

Or did you mean that being left-handed wouldn’t matter?
I figured that.. just a “starting point” observation. :)

The MAIN intended part.. the really “nitty-gritty” of my post was “Nice Tree!”

🤓
 

Adair M

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Always wire two branches with one wire. When you wrap them, one branch will get wired clockwise, the other counter clockwise. See Fig 3, below:

FFE938EC-C415-44F4-9DA5-20CBCBD08B8C.jpeg

Fig 4 shows how to wire two branches on the trunk. Notice, one goes clockwise, the other counter.

To do more sub-bracnches, do it like Fig 15, below:

E501C8DD-67E2-4B8F-95EF-B285C778FBD3.jpeg

If you can master doing Fig 15, you have mastered wiring! Note: at every intersection, there’s only two branches. Prune to avoid having places where three branches come from a single point.

And, here is a picture of a branch wired by Kimura using different colored wires so you can see how it’s done:

95823115-D0B0-459E-BCB2-5693EB59860B.jpeg

Notice that there are only a few places where two wires are placed parallel to one another, and there are no places where three wires are parallel. However, at about the 2 o’clock position, there’s a place where he crossed a smaller green wire over the thicker yellow wire! If he had spun the yellow wire with a slightly tighter spiral, he could have avoided that! LOL!!!
 

HorseloverFat

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Always wire two branches with one wire. When you wrap them, one branch will get wired clockwise, the other counter clockwise. See Fig 3, below:

View attachment 368335

Fig 4 shows how to wire two branches on the trunk. Notice, one goes clockwise, the other counter.

To do more sub-bracnches, do it like Fig 15, below:

View attachment 368337

If you can master doing Fig 15, you have mastered wiring! Note: at every intersection, there’s only two branches. Prune to avoid having places where three branches come from a single point.

And, here is a picture of a branch wired by Kimura using different colored wires so you can see how it’s done:

View attachment 368336

Notice that there are only a few places where two wires are placed parallel to one another, and there are no places where three wires are parallel. However, at about the 2 o’clock position, there’s a place where he crossed a smaller green wire over the thicker yellow wire! If he had spun the yellow wire with a slightly tighter spiral, he could have avoided that! LOL!!!
THANK YOU!!!

I struggle with those transitions down, and then back up..

I realize, now, that that “struggle” was just me “fighting” the natural flow to keep going one direction.. when it reality, my technique should have been “reversing polarity” at that “mid-point”

Thank you SO much!!
 

Adair M

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Work from the trunk out. Large wire first, then move down to smaller wires.
 

Potawatomi13

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Agreed is interesting tree and suggest cut back to last branch before long bare top section. However doing AFTER harden off of growth will give small bit of added trunk growth. If wishing bigger trunk leave this part several years as sacrifice trunk. "Elbow" branches are natural movement not needing wired in and consider these as gifts when found on personal trees.
 

TCGreen

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The strength of your pine is going to come from the health of the roots. I am immediately suspicious when I see any pre-bonsai in a black nursery pot. How long has it been there? What does the soil look like? How are the roots? The foliage density of your pine is going to be greatly impacted by the root care. It may be a little too late to repot your pine, unless you live pretty far north. Where are you?

Whether it is a Jack pine or not, it is almost certainly a single flush pine. When the time comes to start ramifying the foliage, you will want to candle pinch and NOT cut the candles off. However this year don't touch the candles at all, since we are interested in turbo-charging growth.

I like this pine and think it has some interesting character. However I don't like the upper section, which is too long and too spindly (in my opinion). I would remove it, leaving a short jin (no longer than 3"). That will refocus the strength of the tree on the lower branches. Suddenly the tree will have much more foliage relative to its scale. If you can still repot it into a large flat container, the tree should perk up considerably.


View attachment 368252
Just viewed this post properly and that cut off point is exactly where I was thinking of reducing it.
So...
I'm getting some things right on my bonsai journey.
Really great advice from everyone 👍
 

keri-wms

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It seems too stretched out for a bonsai to me without a chop and even then it’ll be leggy - possible though. On the other hand you could keep it tall, and use it to practice “bonsai pines”, the main things being keep it alive (change to a better soil mix in two stages and not under or over watering) balancing energy (keeping the upper growth in check to match the lower so the lower branches don’t weaken), and wiring/pruning. You could actually do most of this with it in the ground as a “garden tree”/Niwaki as an option?
 
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