Banshoho JBP

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Does anyone have any experience with dwarf JBP, especially the Banshoho variety?
I found some at a nursery, they haven't been trained for bonsai though, what's your opinion on them as raw material?
Normal JBPs are pretty hard to come by over here and usually many times more expensive than these as I can only find them at Bonsai retailers.
Pictures down below!
 

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sorce

Nonsense Rascal
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h, what's your opinion on them as raw material?

It'll be the same as anything else....

A sliding scale of "how many years it may take" to make it worthy that ranges from 2-200 years.

Can't see much from these pics to place it on the scale.

Sorce
 
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It'll be the same as anything else....

A sliding scale of "how many years it may take" to make it worthy that ranges from 2-200 years.

Can't see much from these pics to place it on the scale.

Sorce
Thanks, I know it's pretty hard to tell by the pictures, that's just what the nursery owner sent me. I was mostly aiming for information on banshohos or dwarfs in general, growth pattern, vigor, etc to find out if it's worth it. Can't seem to find much info on that.
 

sorce

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etc to find out if it's worth it.

This kinda also depends on your personal situation.

I can't find info that says they are grafted, so it would be a question of affordability then for me.

They look to have low Branches.

Sorce
 
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This kinda also depends on your personal situation.

I can't find info that says they are grafted, so it would be a question of affordability then for me.

They look to have low Branches.

Sorce
I just asked the owner if they're grafted, would this be a deal breaker for you?
They're around 60$ for an idea.
 

0soyoung

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I have a Thunderhead that I air layered off the rootstock (a 3-year long project in my climate) but have not bothered with any of the other 'miniature/dwarf' varieties simply because it is so easy to reduce needle size on standard JBP. The problem with most nursery stock is that the trunk is arrow-straight but doesn't taper --> it just isn't close to ever being a formal upright.

I suggest that you get some young JBP (from @cmeg1, @kingsville grower, or kaedabonsai-en, say) or even just get some good seed. They grow fast and you will have the liberty to create whatever trunk and size of bonsai you might like (there is a 6-year contest in progress on BNut now and a post about pines '6 years later' by Eric Schrader --> search

Of course, it does not have to be an either-or proposition. You could do both. With JWP one pretty much must accept it being grafted. You'll have a similar challenge to figure out how to hide the union. If it is grafted high, one can simply lower a branch and obscure it with foliage. If it is grafted low, one can forgo displaying nebari and fake it with mounded soil/rocks (commonly the case with cork bark varieties). If it is grafted somewhere in between, it won't be noticed if the root stock heads toward the back, say, but otherwise you'll be screwed. If there aren't any wiggles to the trunk near the union you won't be able to make it happen with the nursery stock you're looking at; it will simply be too rigid. IOW, make your pick with this in mind.
 
Messages
29
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Location
Hessen, Germany
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8a
I have a Thunderhead that I air layered off the rootstock (a 3-year long project in my climate) but have not bothered with any of the other 'miniature/dwarf' varieties simply because it is so easy to reduce needle size on standard JBP. The problem with most nursery stock is that the trunk is arrow-straight but doesn't taper --> it just isn't close to ever being a formal upright.

I suggest that you get some young JBP (from @cmeg1, @kingsville grower, or kaedabonsai-en, say) or even just get some good seed. They grow fast and you will have the liberty to create whatever trunk and size of bonsai you might like (there is a 6-year contest in progress on BNut now and a post about pines '6 years later' by Eric Schrader --> search

Of course, it does not have to be an either-or proposition. You could do both. With JWP one pretty much must accept it being grafted. You'll have a similar challenge to figure out how to hide the union. If it is grafted high, one can simply lower a branch and obscure it with foliage. If it is grafted low, one can forgo displaying nebari and fake it with mounded soil/rocks (commonly the case with cork bark varieties). If it is grafted somewhere in between, it won't be noticed if the root stock heads toward the back, say, but otherwise you'll be screwed. If there aren't any wiggles to the trunk near the union you won't be able to make it happen with the nursery stock you're looking at; it will simply be too rigid. IOW, make your pick with this in mind.
Thanks for your answer! I'm in Germany, so I probably won't be able to get any JBP from them. The only reason I'm thinking about these is as I can't get my hands on normal JBPs over here, I think there is or was an import ban on them from Japan.
I have a grafted JWP from Japan on the way, still waiting on quarantine, I'll have to see how I deal with that one later!
I may try to grow some JBP from seed next year, isn't it pretty late for that already?
 

keri-wms

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Thanks for your answer! I'm in Germany, so I probably won't be able to get any JBP from them. The only reason I'm thinking about these is as I can't get my hands on normal JBPs over here, I think there is or was an import ban on them from Japan.
I have a grafted JWP from Japan on the way, still waiting on quarantine, I'll have to see how I deal with that one later!
I may try to grow some JBP from seed next year, isn't it pretty late for that already?
I’d buy some seeds and soak and sow say 25% in perlite now, leave the rest for next year. If you put them in a hot humid greenhouse you should get something out of it - worst case it’s practice for next year! You can get away with overwintering some of them (12.5%?!!) indoors to stop them freezing if they are still at risk by next winter... I actually grew two JBP from seed and kept them completely indoors for 3 years or more, in a sunny window, over a radiator! They were a bit sluggish but got very bushy oddly enough.
 
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Location
Hessen, Germany
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I’d buy some seeds and soak and sow say 25% in perlite now, leave the rest for next year. If you put them in a hot humid greenhouse you should get something out of it - worst case it’s practice for next year! You can get away with overwintering some of them (12.5%?!!) indoors to stop them freezing if they are still at risk by next winter... I actually grew two JBP from seed and kept them completely indoors for 3 years or more, in a sunny window, over a radiator! They were a bit sluggish but got very bushy oddly enough.
3 years indoors? Amazing! I think I'll wait till next spring.
 

bwaynef

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I've got a Banshosho/Banshoho. Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks has them, or did, and has a write-up on his website. All I've done is watered it for about 6 months, thinned it out, ...and repotted it. It was a balled-and-burlapped and very HEAVY. It was all I could do to lift the pot onto my garden cart. (I had to get help loading it into the back of my SUV.)

When I went to repot it this spring, I'd intended to do an HBR repot but the claynastymuck that made up the rootball had me attack it otherwise. I removed 90-95% of the soil/clay/nastiness it was in, put it in an Anderson flat, and was pretty meticulous about getting Boon mix back into the rootball after immobilizing the tree. Its sitting on the ground, to escape roots and have the temps moderated by the earth. I greenhoused it during the cold spells we had in the past few weeks. Looking back I should've suspected the superclay because it didn't put on much growth last year ...and I'd been fertilizing heavily.

I held off on fertilizer after the repot until the candles finished extending and needles started to fold out. There's some backbudding that was (mostly) in place when I thinned it, but I can tell they're getting stronger. My plan is to let this one go at least until fall, maybe next year, before I do anything with it.

One very experienced grower (and a member here, whose name many would recognize) advised me against getting this variety but the trunk on mine kept beckoning. (Picture when it's recovered.). Here's what he said: "they are coarse- large buds and twig diameter that’s hard to finesse. They bud very densely which compounds the coarseness if not addressed. The specie is easier for me with easier results. An easier refined look. Banshoho can become a good bonsai if you’re aware of the potential problems but I prefer the specie."

There's all the info I have on it. All I can say is it was strong enough to survive a pretty brutal repot ...and has some pretty strong backbudding, some of which was in place when I thinned it.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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pflanzmich.de used to sell JBP for around 6 euros. Non-grafted. But since we've been having some cold days in the winter, I think they stopped selling them as they're not a very hardy species.

There are a bunch of forum members growing them from seed, so maybe if you contact some of them they'll let you buy some of theirs.
I keep killing mine, so I just stopped trying JBP as a whole. I found JRP to be way more versatile.
 
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