Consistently killing conifers. Confused.

[ManSkirtBrew]

Ever since I got my first completely beautiful (and doomed) juniper bonsai as a gift some 10+ years ago, I've consistently killed every confier I've tried to grow.

I have excellent success with everything else, from citrus to deciduous trees to succulents, but I cannot keep a conifer alive, and I'm starting to get frustrated.

I managed to keep this nursery procumbens nana alive for 3 years in a gallon pot. Early this spring I moved it to a different, tall pot, with the idea of gently acclimating it to a deep cascade pot. Planted it in Bonsai Jack conifer soil, and continued taking care of it how I normally do.

Every other week I feed it Neptune's Harvest, and every alternate week Dyna-Gro Grow 7-9-5. It seemed to take to its new pot and its sunny spot in the backyard.

Last week we had a lot of rain, and today 90 degree heat. I went out for its normal fertilizing and came out to this:



Too much water? Too much sun? Fungal infection? I can get more pictures in the sun tomorrow if it helps.

Then there's his little buddy, a pre-bonsai that I got from a nursery about 2 years ago. It's doubled in size since I got it, and seemed super healthy. I repotted it at the same time as the nana. Today I'm seeing some brown tips and it looks overall unhappy.



Halp!

 

[River's Edge]

Ever since I got my first completely beautiful (and doomed) juniper bonsai as a gift some 10+ years ago, I've consistently killed every confier I've tried to grow.

I have excellent success with everything else, from citrus to deciduous trees to succulents, but I cannot keep a conifer alive, and I'm starting to get frustrated.

I managed to keep this nursery procumbens nana alive for 3 years in a gallon pot. Early this spring I moved it to a different, tall pot, with the idea of gently acclimating it to a deep cascade pot. Planted it in Bonsai Jack conifer soil, and continued taking care of it how I normally do.

Every other week I feed it Neptune's Harvest, and every alternate week Dyna-Gro Grow 7-9-5. It seemed to take to its new pot and its sunny spot in the backyard.

Last week we had a lot of rain, and today 90 degree heat. I went out for its normal fertilizing and came out to this:

View attachment 379460

Too much water? Too much sun? Fungal infection? I can get more pictures in the sun tomorrow if it helps.

Then there's his little buddy, a pre-bonsai that I got from a nursery about 2 years ago. It's doubled in size since I got it, and seemed super healthy. I repotted it at the same time as the nana. Today I'm seeing some brown tips and it looks overall unhappy.

View attachment 379461

Halp!

Two thoughts!
1. Dry feet. Are you watering when the tree needs water or on a regular schedule?
2. Are you repotting as if they are conifers or deciduous? very different approaches?
In other words suspect it is caused by inappropriate care practises!
Both of the above are common difficulties encountered by many bonsai enthusiasts!
The pictures show possibility of root damage with either repotting or improper watering.
Tree damage shows up slowly, what happened yesterday or today is rarely the cause. Unless you are talking damage from an accident.
If you care to describe the method you used for repotting the tree's it may pinpoint the reason for their demise.

 

[bwaynef]

The fact that this showed up with the onset of heat tells me this is root related. The fact that you have issues with conifers leads me to believe you may have repotting issues.

 

[ManSkirtBrew]

Thanks for the quick reply!

1. During the summer I water daily, unless we've had rain that day. I haven't checked it in a few days, since we've had consistent rain every single day for a week straight. Yesterday was the first dry day, so today I watered.
2. I tried to disturb the root ball as little as possible, only teasing out the roots and knocking out enough old soil to get it comfortably in its new pot. Otherwise, as normal. Wire mesh over drainage holes, mound up soil, put tree in, tuck roots down with chopstick, backfill and poke with chopstick until all the voids are filled.

 

[ManSkirtBrew]

The fact that this showed up with the onset of heat tells me this is root related. The fact that you have issues with conifers leads me to believe you may have repotting issues.

Thank you, this is exactly the kind of knowledge I was hoping for. Can you explain why the heat points to a root issue?

 

[bwaynef]

Assuming poor repotting technique, the onset of heat is the first time the roots are taxed enough to keep the foliage hydrated. Looks like they weren't up to the task.

 

[River's Edge]

During the summer I water daily, unless we've had rain that day. I haven't checked it in a few days, since we've had consistent rain every single day for a week straight. Yesterday was the first dry day, so today I watered.

It is best to water trees when they need water. the only way to know is to check the soil in the pot! Rain does not always get into the pot or water a tree properly. Drier soil mixes can dry out even in cooler damper weather, wetter nixes can stay to wet for days on end. need to check in order to know wether watering is needed.

I tried to disturb the root ball as little as possible, only teasing out the roots and knocking out enough old soil to get it comfortably in its new pot. Otherwise, as normal. Wire mesh over drainage holes, mound up soil, put tree in, tuck roots down with chopstick, backfill and poke with chopstick until all the voids are filled.

One is unsure if you remove all the old soil, but do not disturb the roots more than needed, or if you just tease out a few roots leaving quite a bit of old soil. This tells me that you may have mixed types of soils and thus difficulty knowing if the root ball is evenly watered. If the central core is still nursery soil and you add bonsai soil mix then the water retention will be very different in the central core from the outer section. Basically conifers should not be bare rooted and ytthis is the most common cause for difficulty when repotting.

On hotter days you may need to water twice if the soil dries out very quickly!

 

[ManSkirtBrew]

If the central core is still nursery soil and you add bonsai soil mix then the water retention will be very different in the central core from the outer section. Basically conifers should not be bare rooted and ytthis is the most common cause for difficulty when repotting.

This is the conundrum I came up against--I know that you're not supposed to bare root conifers because of the micorrhizal relationship, but if you're not supposed to bare root it, and not supposed to leave nursery soil in there, what do you do? I may have erred too far on leaving nursery soil in, but honestly now I don't remember. It was a few months ago, and I don't seem to have any pictures on my phone.

How does one know the right thing to do? I've watched all manner of videos on repotting conifers, and there's a lot of varying information. From people claiming success bare rooting, to OMG DON'T TOUCH THE ROOTBALL.

Also, what can I do to help the other one that's not quite dead yet? More water? Less sun?

 

[CoreSeverin]

Ever since I got my first completely beautiful (and doomed) juniper bonsai as a gift some 10+ years ago, I've consistently killed every confier I've tried to grow.

I have excellent success with everything else, from citrus to deciduous trees to succulents, but I cannot keep a conifer alive, and I'm starting to get frustrated.

I managed to keep this nursery procumbens nana alive for 3 years in a gallon pot. Early this spring I moved it to a different, tall pot, with the idea of gently acclimating it to a deep cascade pot. Planted it in Bonsai Jack conifer soil, and continued taking care of it how I normally do.

Every other week I feed it Neptune's Harvest, and every alternate week Dyna-Gro Grow 7-9-5. It seemed to take to its new pot and its sunny spot in the backyard.

Last week we had a lot of rain, and today 90 degree heat. I went out for its normal fertilizing and came out to this:

View attachment 379460

Too much water? Too much sun? Fungal infection? I can get more pictures in the sun tomorrow if it helps.

Then there's his little buddy, a pre-bonsai that I got from a nursery about 2 years ago. It's doubled in size since I got it, and seemed super healthy. I repotted it at the same time as the nana. Today I'm seeing some brown tips and it looks overall unhappy.

View attachment 379461

Halp!

I Feel your pain, I also have terrible problems with my conifers, I was just about to write a post about it when I saw this thread, hopefully there is something in here that can help me as well.

 

[ManSkirtBrew]

I Feel your pain, I also have terrible problems with my conifers, I was just about to write a post about it when I saw this thread, hopefully there is something in here that can help me as well.

I hope so too! Not originally pictured are two other unknown conifers that I murdered while I was at it. Clearly my repotting skills are...well, not skills at all.

 

[CoreSeverin]

I hope so too! Not originally pictured are two other unknown conifers that I murdered while I was at it. Clearly my repotting skills are...well, not skills at all.



View attachment 379468

ouch that is really rough. my repotting is not good either. I did a repot on a crappy little gooseberry that I use to test and practice different techniques. its terrible and I have no love for it, so I use it for target practice. my skills are really not at a good level yet so Its useful to have something around that I can demolish.

 

[Mara of dragon clan]

repot on the full moon, reserve as much upper feeder roots, cut the bottom roots whole instead of teasing. cut only 25% of the roots per year (impatience kills most trees)

repot with mixed inorganic medium with as a small outer layer keeping most of the original soil and mass. i use 50% chabasai, 20 % akadama, 30 % fine broken pine bark.

keep in shade for first 3 weeks after repot. best if surrounded by trees on the ground. i have also tried not watering the first 2 days in full shade and then a solid watering by the 3rd day. ive done much more severe approach with this which produce great result but this is safest.

my conifers all love full blast all day sun and the pine bark lets them do this. my trees get water at 8 am and again in the afternoon around 4pm. the morning is for breathing, the afternoon is for cooling the roots. try making a fence that blocks western sun to get shade if you cant get 2 waterings. i always lift my trees and check the pots if they need water, which in temps of over 20c where i am, they do by the schedule ive given


impatience kills most trees, transition from x gallon pots into bonsai pots should take at least 4-5 years if serious about bonsai long term

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Just something I want to throw in there.. There aren't any dogs around are there?
Mans best friend can whizz a tree to death.

 

[Potawatomi13]

A couple unasked questions please: Exactly WHEN did you repot? Was this shortly (1-2 weeks)after cold of Winter was past OR was there any hard freezing after repots?

 

[R3x]

I'd say roots because of too much water because of bad soil. Because of the dead foliage it cannot be seen what kind of substrate you use. I suggest using inorganic medium that prevents from overwatering with appropriate particle size. I use pure Zeolite for conifers but that's just my approach. Regarding repotting and bare-rooting. Usually trees coming from nurseries have enough roots and foliage (because they have been fertilized quite much) to survive harsher replanting. So I tend to remove as much as possible of the original soil to replace with inorganic substrate.

 

[Woocash]

I think a lot depends on your normal climate as well and the sort of substrate these plants usually survive in. Why, for example, would you use a substrate that dries out quickly in a hot environment, or one that stays wet for longer in a cool environment. You have to find a balance.

Also, before anybody comes along with the idea of bonsaiing these little nursery trees, they are often sat for long periods in these nursery pots, used to fairly indiscriminate watering and planted in standard compost, fairly root bound, making water penetration somewhat difficult. It seems to me a couple of things are at play here. 1, most of the healthy roots will be on the outside of the rootball where the water can most easily get to, therefore by reducing a rootball in the wrong places (ie down the sides) you will remove most of the best and healthiest feeder roots which conifers can’t replace as quickly or in the same way as deciduous trees, and 2, the rush to remove nursery soil assumes that the plant in question is ready for a bonsai pot - a subject often overlooked in repotting guides. First step is to facilitate an easier transition. If anything, chop of the bottom of the rootball, leave the vast majority of the soil in place and plant in a wider, shallower pot, allowing feeder roots to grow sideways into the new substrate. Subsequent repots will allow for nursery soil removal in stages with a healthier rootball to fall back on.

Someone with far more experience than me may contradict, but this logic has served me pretty well so far (touch wood).

 

[discusmike]

Conifers stay green for awhile after you kill them, chances are whatever killed the tree happened awhile ago, more then likely the repot

 

[JesusFreak]

I’m seeing moss in your soil. Could it be that they’re too wet? Have you checked the pH of your water?

 

[sorce]

Early this spring I moved it to a different, tall pot

Too early! Too Spring!

I haven't had a conifer die on me since repotting the first full moon after the summer solstice.

The reason you can't find solid advice that actually works in spring is because it's too "roll of the dice".
Last year's work matters, winter area matters, fert, water, pot size, local micro clime matters.
You reckon everyone who repots successfully in spring has all these values equal? Hell no! That's why the advice is so varied, and never with the pertinent information that matters.

Summer Repot to the sound of Leftover Fireworks, and your work will never blow up on you again!

Sorce

 

[Paradox]

I've repotted all my juniper in spring without losing one. Juniper are usually one of the last ones to get repotted.

The key is timing. You want to do it in spring just as the buds begin to swell when it is warm enough to avoid freezes but still cool during the day. Repotting once it starts to hit 80 to 85+ is risky. I always put them in a spot that gets morning sun and afternoon shade for a few weeks, at least until I see new growth happening again. I don't start fertilizing them again until I see that.

You also have to watch the watering after a repot. While it's true that a newly repotted tree has compromised roots and won't take up water as well for a while, the inorganic soil mixes that most of us use dry out a bit faster when new (before the tree fills it with roots and other debris start to accumulate).

The key is vigilance. Monitoring your trees daily and responding accord to what you see.

If I have rainy weather, I still water my trees unless I get half an inch of rain or more in 24 hours. A rain gauge you monitor daily for rain is a cheap and invaluable tool.