leatherback
The Treedeemer
Not sure if it makes a difference. It might have been one of the first books I bought and I just read it as I read comics. I open it and read what is where I open it.
Tridents over Seiryu rock
- Thread starter Pitoon
- Start date
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Some pics of the small trident root over rock attempts.
Trees are now 3 years old and have been on the rocks around 18 months.
I am being conservative in growing these as I have seen how easy it is to end up with a trident trunk way bigger than the rock.
A couple of these have trunks a little long for shohin. I will consider chopping or grafting branches if the roots and rock appear to be worth the effort.
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
Thanks for posting those. Looks like I will probably have to chop the trunk around the 2yr mark to keep them mame size.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
love the one on the tall narrow yellow rock. Very nice result
So.. at what point do you see them grasping the rock enough to uncover? After one growing seasons already it seems!? Tridents are even better than I though then! (I had a cherry which took 5 years!)
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Roots can be uncovered almost as soon as they are in position on the rock and enough feeders are in the soil underneath.
Forget all the stuff about exposed roots not thickening. Trunks thicken well enough above ground so why do we pretend that exposed roots won't? Thickening is related to the amount of sap flow past a particular point. As long as there are plenty of feeder roots to provide water and nutrients and leaves above to use the resources branches, trunk and roots will thicken.
These were exposed after just a year wrapped and buried because the rocks are so small. Trident roots can thicken rapidly and I was worried about them getting too thick and blocking out the rock. There's no going back from that so slow and steady suits me better for this trial.
Forget all the stuff about exposed roots not thickening. Trunks thicken well enough above ground so why do we pretend that exposed roots won't? Thickening is related to the amount of sap flow past a particular point. As long as there are plenty of feeder roots to provide water and nutrients and leaves above to use the resources branches, trunk and roots will thicken.
These were exposed after just a year wrapped and buried because the rocks are so small. Trident roots can thicken rapidly and I was worried about them getting too thick and blocking out the rock. There's no going back from that so slow and steady suits me better for this trial.
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
Any updates?
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
Quick update on these. They grew well for being in part shade this year. Next year I will move them out to the table in full sun. I'm thinking probably another year to gain some girth and them chop to start the tapering process.
SeanS
Omono
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The nice things is you’re using cuttings so you should have some buds low down. All of my ROR tridents are seedlings so I’ll probably have to graft shoots down low to build the trunks once the ROR bits are created.
Excited to see your trees
Excited to see your trees
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
There's one I'm tempted on chopping back (upper right one) next spring, but I'm going to try to hold back from doing it.The nice things is you’re using cuttings so you should have some buds low down. All of my ROR tridents are seedlings so I’ll probably have to graft shoots down low to build the trunks once the ROR bits are created.
Excited to see your trees
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
They have started to leaf out now, so it's time to check on the roots and readjust as needed.
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
Some roots pics. There was only one Trident that didn't grab onto its rock.
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
I marked four that are ready to be chopped right after I air layer the top. All were re wrapped, I'll reassess late spring/early summer. Hopefully by then I can remove the air layers.
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
There was like two out of the six that had some fantastic root movement. I think those will make some really nice mame in a few years.
Yamabudoudanshi
Shohin
The mame/mini RORs are well on their way. Following along.
Nice work!
Nice work!
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
I had not realised it is a year since those pics. Well into Autumn here and heading toward cooler weather and winter.
Updated pictures taken this afternoon. Does not seem to be much progress but I see them regularly. I'll let you compare the new pics with last year.
All the trees were pruned last winter but have been allowed free growth through summer to thicken the roots and trunks. Still no flattening of roots on the rock yet so more growth required next season but some branching and ramification has started I'll check that when the leaves drop and do some selective pruning. Can't afford to allow too much growth up to for fear of overthickening and leaving larger scars. I'd rather take a few extra years than end up with big chops or no taper.
As proposed I put thread grafts on 2 of the trees with taller trunks. They've grown better on one than on the other. I guess that's got something to do with conditions s these trees are now spread round the nursery wherever I could find spaces. No evidence yet of successful unions so I'll just leave them all on to continue to grow until I see good swelling above the grafts. More pics to follow.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Final 2 shohin ROR tridents update - Thread grafts.
Thread grafted seedlings have not grown much on the first so no signs of union yet.
Better growth on all 3 thread grafts on this one but still not enough swelling at the unions to make the cuts yet.
Thread grafted seedlings have not grown much on the first so no signs of union yet.
Better growth on all 3 thread grafts on this one but still not enough swelling at the unions to make the cuts yet.
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
I am in the same position. I risk getting some of the smaller rocks being swallowed up. The ones I marked with the flag tape I plan to start air layers on as soon as their flush hardens off. Then I'll chop and start working on the trunk line on those.
cwilhelm
Sapling
Is it typical with tridents not to get buds lower on the trunk?
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Not particularly typical and for normal sized root over rock a short bare section is good. These are shohin sized trees so max 10" tall at finished height which means maybe just 2-3" to the first branch, maybe even 1"-2" allowing for the height of the rock and roots.
To get enough good roots on a seedling we sometimes have to go down the root section a bit, removing odd lone roots. That section which was previously root now matures as the lower trunk but has no nodes to grow shoots from so often no buds on the lower section.
Even trunks that were above ground part of a seedling gradually lose the ability to bud easily as the trunk matures. They may produce buds if the tree is chopped low but who wants to take that chance when you've already spent several years developing a good root/rock combination - and that's not always as easy as it looks or sounds.
SeanS
Omono
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Not if there aren’t any nodes on the section between where the roots end and the first node is
If you’re building a “non tree” looking ROR (examples below) you may want branches coming out of the trunk right above the roots. If you’re building a more “tree” type ROR then a short bare trunk section like @Shibui mentions is fine
Obviously grafting solvethe problem of no low nodes if you need low branches or a new section of trunk lower down
