new tall skinny juniper

frozenoak

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juniper.jpg

I got this juniper at a club raffle. It's super tall and skinny (maybe 4.5' tall X 1/2" trunk). If it's possible I'd like to bend this trunk into a severe S shape or maybe more curves. Is it possible? It creaks when I try to bend it so I haven't wanted to push my luck before I asked "the pros". I am also hoping that if I put it in full sun it will back bud.

If need be I'd be willing to trunk chop it and start something new, or get rid of it completely and just keep the cactus that is sharing the pot with it. Any advice would be appreciated.
 

frozenoak

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Very instructional, Thank you. I will have to go find some raffia tomorrow. I may also have to take this to the next club meeting to get some help wrapping it and selecting the right wire size. I haven't wired or wrapped anything yet.
 

quietbridge

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Very instructional, Thank you. I will have to go find some raffia tomorrow. I may also have to take this to the next club meeting to get some help wrapping it and selecting the right wire size. I haven't wired or wrapped anything yet.

do seek the help of someone that has done this before...there is no substitute for hands on training and what you are trying to do is not just basic wiring...applying wire and raffia is not that difficult but if not done correctly (proper gauge, proper application, etc...) you will damage your tree or not be able to accomplish your goal when you go to do the actual bending.

Good Luck!!
QB
 

MACH5

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As per the above, excellent suggestions and advice. Also you could think about creating a literati design as well.

Literati juniper sketch.jpg
 

frozenoak

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This tree will probably be a delightful Literati. The style has never really appealed to me, but I think it may be too old for the faux Shimpaku sort of treatment. I'd probably have to carve a channel out of the length of trunk and place wire inside the new wound then wrap with raffia. In my inexperienced hands it would probably end up breaking but I still want to try twisting it. I'll talk to my club next month. Smoke did his in January so I have a little time to consider it. I'll probably chicken out and go with the literati style.
 

TheSteve

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Literati is harder than you think. The best literati usually don't come from trees where that was the only option. You sound like you are already talking yourself out of a learning experience on a piece of material that is perfect for learning on.
 

frozenoak

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No, not yet. I still want to do the twisted trunk. I will, however, need the help of more experienced individuals to get it done, and I don't really know anybody that can help me...yet. This is why I have been scouting local clubs (and study groups). I will be asking around at the next couple meetings I attend. I just suspect the general consensus to be that the tree is to rigid to be twisted the way I'd like it, but the truth is I don't know much if anything so I am hoping I am wrong.
 

october

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Hello frozenoak. This tree is not a good candidate for the radical twisting. That is more reserved for very young junipers or cuttings. Another reason why it is not a good candidate is because the foliage is high up on the tree. When you do the radical twisting of a tree, all the foliage is very low on the trunk because the tree is young and short.

Mach5 suggestion of a literati might be the best option for this tree. Literati is a style that can only be appeciated with time and experience in bonsai. After you are in bonsai for about 5-10 years. You will see the beauty of the style. In reality, a well done literati is one of the toughest styles to pull off. The reason is that the tree needs to have a thinner trunk, but yet it has to be a tree that has age behind it. Also, it needs to tell a story. Like the tree has survived decades or centuries of harsh conditions. Hence, this is the reason why there would be sparce foliage and foliage only on the top 2/3 of the tree. Here are a couple of good examples of literati. Maybe you can get some ideas from these.

larchliterati[1].jpg

img_6989[1].jpg
 
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Vance Wood

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Not meaning to throw a monkey wrench into the works, but as I look at this tree all of the above options are possibilities but that begs a critical question: Is this tree strong enough to survive this kind of treatment? As I look at the tree the condition of the lower branches, which seem to have all but died over the last couple of years, and the fact that the top is not quite as vigorous as I would like, or suspect it would be, if the vigor of the top is responsible for the decline of the base. For those of you just starting out sometimes run away top growth can cause a serious decline in the lower branches.

So----I suspect that the tree is not in the best of health and could use a season or two of careful fertilization to regain optimal strength. I know this is not what anyone wants to hear but it is none-the-less something to be considered unless the process learned is considered a legitimate price. This too is OK, as long as one considers this and does not set their expectations too high.

In short: Go for what ever approach you desire, it is after all your tree, but know that there is a substantial risk at this point. Just don't come back on yourself and say this is too hard I can't do it so I'm going to quit.

I have seen this more times than I care to remember. There was a lady in our club years ago, who as a beginner, had an eye to pick the most wonderful raw material but could not convince herself that she could take the tree beyond where it was and no amount of coaching could change her mind. She eventually quit. This should not happen just because of an inability to believe in one's self.
 
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MACH5

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I would absolutely agree with the above. It goes without saying that any styling work done on any tree must be done ONLY when a tree is healthy. Otherwise you'll have a dead tree in your hands.
 

Vance Wood

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I would absolutely agree with the above. It goes without saying that any styling work done on any tree must be done ONLY when a tree is healthy. Otherwise you'll have a dead tree in your hands.

You are absolutely right. However you have just voiced what our problem is when it comes to teaching bonsai. There is nothing that goes without saying. It goes without saying that for the most part bonsai should be kept outdoors until someone comes along and tells us they have been keeping a Pine Tree bonsai inside on a table in front of the TV. It goes without saying that any kind of watering schedule that departs from understanding that too much water can kill a tree as fast as not enough.

This is not meant to be a indictment of you MACH5, I have fallen into this practice myself. I am only pointing out that some of the most basic concepts are basic only to those who have already killed a few trees. Your statement "This goes without saying" just gave me an epiphany that I though should be addressed. I did not mean to nit pick or offend anyone.
 

frozenoak

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I appreciate all the advice. It's not a tree I know right away what to do with. It's nice to have options.

The truth is I haven't made a decision yet and I won't do anything until I have. The tree looks to me like it was in a crowd and the lower branches died off due to lack of light. The growth it does have looks plenty healthy but I can let it sit for a while.
 

Vance Wood

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I appreciate all the advice. It's not a tree I know right away what to do with. It's nice to have options.

The truth is I haven't made a decision yet and I won't do anything until I have. The tree looks to me like it was in a crowd and the lower branches died off due to lack of light. The growth it does have looks plenty healthy but I can let it sit for a while.

That's very possible. It's good you are looking at the tree a little differently, there is a lot to this hobby, a good part of it is in observational skills.
 
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