Scots Pine - What to do, is it worth it?

I bought this scots pine about a year ago because of its large trunk (~3 inch diameter).



I let it sit in the yard until this spring at which time I repotted it and did some initial pruning. I was a bit disappointed to see that half of its trunk was buried in the pot (NOTE dont start pruning anything until you are sure of what is going on with the trunk!). It lost alot of its bark during the repotting/root work mainly because I didnt know how prone it was to falling off. I know the bark will grow back in a few years.

I was also disappointed to find that that very nice trunk tops out to 6-8 smaller branches in an octopus configuration with smaller and rather leggy branches beyond those. Ive done some bud removal and I am getting some limited back budding but not really enough yet.

Here are some pics of what it looks like now



In any case the tree seems to be alive and doing just fine considering my abuse. However I am at a loss as to what should be done to this pine in the future. I cant see any design route in it yet. My gut tells me that this thing is probably trash and will never amount to any kind of decent bonsai tree. Keep in mind that I am not looking for show quality material at this point, which this will never be.

Unless there is something I am not seeing in this tree that someone else may see, my choices seem to be to toss it now (although I hate to do that) and save the space for something better or really abuse the tree next year to learn what it would take to get it to back bud better if at all or just hang on to it in the hopes that something comes to light some time in the future.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Paradox,
Don't throw that one away!!
The tree has adopted a broom style. You need to take it back to the informal upright style that will suit it best. Pick one of those leaders and remove the rest. I'm not sure how many there are - you might want to proceed in stages. Remove half this year, half next year, or something like that.
Then you need to grow it hard. Looks like you have it in a nice, large container. Fertilize it aggressively. It will pop new branches from the trunk all the way down to the soil level.
We are just establishing a culture of Scots pine in the bonsai community in the US. See if you can book a workshop with Dave DeGroot, Mike Hagedorn or Ryan Neil (I'm sure there are others I'm not aware of). Walter Pall is also a big fan of the Scots pine, and tells me it is much more popular than Japanese black pine in Europe.
In 3-4 years, you will have a tree that would sell for $500-750.
Good luck,
Chris Kirk
Telperion Farms

I agree, look for one of the "broom branches" that you can visualize as a logical artistic continuation of the main trunk and reduce down the other branches .
?
Don't worry about the bark, this is probably one of the grafted cutlivars. Probably Bouverinsis (sp?) which has exfoliating bark.

do exactly what Chris told you ... there is some great potential there .... easiest tree to spot from the pictures comes from the third pic... attachment 25754 ..... has all the making of a really handsome tree in no time ...

@capnk -- I know you prolly showed me some before but are you growing scots down there on the farm ??

Usually the ones that are the hardest to work with come out looking the best. Walking away from it may stop you from creating something interesting. There have been times I was going to put trees in the ground and forget about them but one day it hits you what needs to be done.

Ang3lfir3,
Yes, we started a crop several years ago and they have done very nicely, so we have other plantings in follow-up rotation. There's one on the website.
Chris

I guess I am a little astonished that you are willing to dismiss this tree altogether when i saw the pictures. The trunk looks big and strong - a good thing. While it is probably grafted, it looks like the front you selected hides any noticeable graft union - another good thing. What does the root flare look like?

Wow.....Thank you very very much for the replys everyone.

I wasn't really wanting to "dismiss" this tree by any means which is why I posted it here for advice. It is more simply my inexperience and not knowing what the possibilities are yet and how this tree might respond to cutting off all those smaller branches. I was afraid it might just end up looking like a small stick coming out of a big stick with such an abrupt size transition that it would be rediculous.

I'm surprised they aren't commonly used as bonsai in the U.S. because a couple books I have from 10 years ago mention scots as good for bonsai

This was about the 4th tree I purchased when I started a year or so ago. I am very happy to know that it was not a bad purchase after all. There was another one at the same nursery this spring which I skipped over because "I already have one of those". Maybe I should have looked at it more closely...lol.

It was repotted this past spring so I can't do any more work on it this year. There are about 6-8 branches on it now. Ill pick 3 or 4 to cut off next spring then decide on the rest the year after that.

I've been giving it slow release fertilizer pellets formulated at 10-10-10. Is there a better formula/form for it?

I'm excited about this tree again and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes! Now I just to have to not ruin it with my inexperience!

Thanks again

the slow release formula is a good portion of a strong feeding regimen .... you should also feed the tree with full strength Miracle Grow weekly or twice a week even ....

I mixed up a batch of the normal miracle grow and gave it some last night as it needed some water anyway. I have a couple of other trees that would probably benefit from the extra food as well.

I looked up the names of the guys that Chris mentioned. Two are on the west coast and the other is in Florida so unless they ever venture to the NY area, I won't be able to find a workshop with them.

Also would anyone know if the Bonsai Society of Greater NY is still active? Their website seems pretty dead.

I mixed up a batch of the normal miracle grow and gave it some last night as it needed some water anyway. I have a couple of other trees that would pprobably benefit from the extra food as well.

I looked up the names of the guys that Chris mentioned. Two are on the west coast and the other is in Florida so unless they ever venture to the NY area, I won't be able to find a workshop with them.

Also would anyone know if the Bonsai Society of Greater NY is still active?

Paradox said:

I mixed up a batch of the normal miracle grow and gave it some last night as it needed some water anyway. I have a couple of other trees that would probably benefit from the extra food as well.

I looked up the names of the guys that Chris mentioned. Two are on the west coast and the other is in Florida so unless they ever venture to the NY area, I won't be able to find a workshop with them.

Also would anyone know if the Bonsai Society of Greater NY is still active? Their website seems pretty dead.

Click to expand...

Not really sure about the New York area .... Rochester is where the US National Exhibition is and I know Bill V. and John Romano are both in that basic area ... I also believe Colin Lewis is still near by (Maine I believe)

re: fertilizer .... yes they would all appreciate it ... We need to learn to feed the trees more often .... most American bonsai practitioners don't feed enough ...

Colin Lewis is the one the guys to go to for Scots on the right coast, he lives in southern Maine and is set up to host workshops. Maine is quite nice this time of year
CLICK/

Paradox,

Don't listen to these guys...what you have is useless so let me help you by properly disposing it for you. You can send it to me...I will even pay for shipping. LOL

Kidding aside, you have a great looking (and unique) tree there.

Haha Poink Nice try but no dice.

Angelfir, southern Maine isnt that far so that is a possibility. I grew up in Maine and still have family that live there.
thanks

OK here is a resurrect of my Scots Pine thread for the sake of asking about the possibility of developing some nebari on it. It is no where close to where I can do that yet as I still need to spend the next 2 years reducing branches to one leader.

It originally had 9 branches; 4 were cut this year. Three more will be cut next year and Ill have to choose between the remaining 2 the following year if it survives.

As requested by Gary Wood, I have included pics of the base of the trunk.

I am not sure if this information was included with the original post when first you posted it, but it looks very much to me that it is probably Bouvronensis, a grafted cultivar. To me the picture clearly shows the point of the graft. The question is whether you want the new roots above the graft or you want to go with more roots on the existing base which is the stock of the grafted relationship.

I figured that was a graft as well. I don't remember the cultivar at the moment but I think I have it recorded in the computer at home. Ill look later.

As to where to try for new roots. It seems to me that there would be an advantage to getting them above the graft. It would eliminate the graft as well as shorten the tree. When I bought the tree, a lot of the trunk was buried and I was disappointed that it was as tall as it is when I repotted it and found the rest of the trunk. Right now I'm most interested in whatever would be best for the development of this tree.

I'm open to ideas. What are your thoughts as to both options?
Also when would be the best time to start working towards growing new roots? Next spring or wait until after the branch work is done?

Paradox,

I don't have any technique advise to offer you concerning developing new roots, but it seems to me that concentrating on branch development on this tree isn't as imporant as getting the roots figured out. If you don't have the roots you want, how will you know where the branches need to be positioned or which ones to use? It is my opinion that you should know and like the root situation first and then base branching off of the determined best root and trunk view.

Please let me know if I am misunderstanding your intentions.

Regards,
Martin

Martin,
Thanks for the reply.
I'm pretty much thinking the same thing. It might be best to work towards the roots now but I do know balancing the roots vs foliage mass is also important. It will have to lose most of its branches anyway and I think I can at least get it down to 2 or maybe 3 possibilities for future leaders. I don't believe the other branches would be useful in any future scenario with the roots/trunk.

Other thoughts? Keep the discussion going.