Monster Trunk Trident needs Direction

I acquired this tree last spring. I have been debating what direction to go with it. The base is 6 inches wide and it is 12 inches tall at the trunk chop. Picture number 1 is currently what i have for the front, because the base looks the widest. Pic number 2 seems to taper better at the top so im still undecided. All the branches still left on the tree came with it. Im looking for any imput on where i should go with this guy. I appreciate any feedback. View attachment 20692View attachment 20693View attachment 20694View attachment 20695View attachment 20691

Well, I'd like to see the trunk shorter, by about half. Otherwise, you will have to have a massive canopy (maybe 24 inches wide) to get what I'd consider the right proportions in a tree.

Others may see it differently, of course.

jkl said:

Well, I'd like to see the trunk shorter, by about half. Otherwise, you will have to have a massive canopy (maybe 24 inches wide) to get what I'd consider the right proportions in a tree.

Others may see it differently, of course.

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If you do go with Jims idea, I could see a possible leader that could be used. It's the one circled in red:

Ok so I am pretty new at this, so take this with a grain of salt. You have a great trunk, but there are problems with the branching. I like the first picture as the front, but I don't like the the second branch that kind of pokes out and crosses to the left. Another problem currently is that the lower branches arent as thick as the branches on the top of the tree. Hopefully someone else with more experience chimes in but you may have to start over on the branches from scratch.

tmmason10 said:

Ok so I am pretty new at this, so take this with a grain of salt. You have a great trunk, but there are problems with the branching. I like the first picture as the front, but I don't like the the second branch that kind of pokes out and crosses to the left. Another problem currently is that the lower branches arent as thick as the branches on the top of the tree. Hopefully someone else with more experience chimes in but you may have to start over on the branches from scratch.

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You are 100% right.

It looks to be in a large pot - but it simply may not be large enough to give you the explosive growth you really need. If you pick one or two of the top branches to the right or left; and right seems naturally better..in this case....you need to let the new leader grow to 4 to 6 feet in length to create taper to the new top. You might also think about thread grafting new branches on lower down. If you cannot plant this monster back in the ground maybe you should think about a large grow box. A tridenet maple of this size with a 6" diameter trunk - should have big powerful crown. The branches that came with the tree when you purchased it are too straight where they meet the trunk - they should have been wired to give some movement. A long term project (at least 5 years) but you need to develop a plan and stick with it. Tom.

jkl said:

You are 100% right.

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Ha see, I listen and pay attention.

This is my largest tree. i bought it to create something massive. i am going to keep the original height. i cut off all of the top branches except the big one on the right. im going to let it grow out as suggested. it needs cleaning still around the top, but it gives a better idea without all that clutter up top. so now we have a new starting point.

so I won't say much about the things others talked about as they covered them pretty well ....

you've chosen a front... and its a pretty good one (#3 was a decent consideration as well since the nebari is nice and smooth there.. but the muscularity was less)

you need to work on that big root on the right... it extends too far and is a bit of an eye sore .. the nebari should be strong and sprawling not pointy and phallic....

shorten the branches a lot and remove those you simply can not use... for graftin approach grafts are what you want (sometimes called in-arch ) as these don't require drilling crazy long holes.....

personally I would hollow the trunk some more and have used probably two of the branches to create multiple apices... create some uro in the spaces you have and then in-arch a few branches... you need to get some gnarlyness in those branches and now is the time to do it.... your wire seems too tight and spingy you can spread those coils out some more.... use larger sweeping curves for areas you want to be subtrunks you can worry about fine detail wiring in a few years....

awesome material don't let it intimidate you and don't be afraid to break away from formulaic approaches .... just make it look like a tree... also please add your location (city,state) to your profile.... we can't help you if we have to guess what your growing conditions are (plus I can't tell you were to go to see great trees cuz I don't know where you are )

my 2 cents

looks like i'm to late. i'd (have) left all the top branches, pull the side ones down, and go with super wide broom style. most lower branches would be pruned or used as sacrifice. place grow box, ground or large smart pot. take a bunch of cuttings grow then graft on roots, and start to reduce that dominant root.

the classical grow and thicken low branch first/ extend lead/ heal chop method puts this tree on an much much longer time line than, broom style.

in its current state i'd still go broom cut a wedge, bind and let grow crazy, that stout trunk with a low wide canopy, oh the potential........

at the top did you go with that back branch to the right to create taper/movement? did you decide on formal /informal upright? also i'd caution with all the wiring, i'd just pull down anchoring to pot or roots, that much wire can slow growth down on branch you're trying to thicken. if your trying to heal scar tree in ground is KING.

Im thinking the book "Narley Branches? The top branches were impossible to work with and too straight. I think im going to work to create a scary looking tree. Im thinking of hollowing out the top and work it into the large uro on the side. then take a couple of new branches at the top and create two different appices. Im going to see what sprouts on the sides this year and let grow out to thicken for side branches. I have never reduced a root that large. how should that be accomplished? DO i take cuts out of the top and or out of the length of it? or should i take it off at the trunk and wait for the big hole to cover back up? seems what ever i do will be unsightly. I want this thing to be ugly, but naturaly looking ugly.

Don't make open wounds that you wish to stay open if at all possible. They will just rot away and you will not be able to do anything to stop it if it starts. Shari's and uro's are last resorts on diciduous trees.

If you want this thing to look look like a big spookey tree, then let all these branches grow for about two years at least, then cut them all back and repeat with different directions. continue to cut and grow untill the branching is about in proprtion to the trunk. This will take at least 10 years maybe more, but it is the only way to get what you want. Mybe something like this below.

its "Gnarly Branches Ancient Trees" ( I designed the cover )

you can create the ancient gnarly look in a lot of ways..... we wire young whips into shape and then work on the secondary and tertiary branching to create size and ramification .... you can also use the method Al described (which since it's a trident I would take his advice ) ....

I of course will tell you that hollows and uro are all things a great D tree needs.... and most people will want to hunt me down with a pitch fork.... so take that for what its worth (guaranteed someone will chime in to tell you how wrong I am)

as for reducing the phallic root..... cut windows on the side and bury it.... make sure they are large enough to form roots.... once they root... cut back with an angled cut facing the DOWN .... should throught more roots... just make it not so dang pointy...

Shortly after my last post I made on this tree I decided to make a something of a broom style out of this tree. I cut all the branches off in early spring and started from scratch. I also addressed the Phalic root that was poking people in the face. When new shoots started coming out I let four grow wild and removed the rest. As you can see it has grown quite well in its new over sized plastic pot. When growth had come to a halt I wired the bottom of the big branches to try to give them some movement. My question, and I think I know the answer, is how low should I cut this years growth back to start again next year? My thought is to cut it back 1/3 the height of the tree, since my canopy needs to be 2/3 the height of the trunk. Any thoughts?

Looks about how my hawthorn started out. Good material, you're now building a good bonsai, from the bottom-up. Patience and pinching will get you there...

And I would have cut the primary branches back shorter than I did when mine was in this stage...so probably nothing longer than about 2/3 the height of the trunk...+/-

Thanks Brian for the link and response. I meant to say I think I should cut back the new growth to 1/3 the height of the trunk since my finished canopy needs to be 2/3 the height of the trunk. That way I can build more ramifications on the way up and out to my finished height. So you think I should cut the new growth back to 2/3rds the height of the trunk an start building the ramification outward?

It was just a guideline, looking at the tree, if the trunk is 12" tall, I'd prune the primary branches back to about 8" long, making the height about 20" tall for the moment. Ramification will be built along those 8", and out from the ends.

The decision I'm still living with (and slowly correcting) was to leave those primary branches long back in '02-'03 as they formed. The trunk chop on the hawthorn is about 12" at the highest point, and I left the primary branches that emerged about 12" long. I'm still slowly replacing them with new branches that ramify closer to the trunk chop. The tree won't be any shorter than the present 24", just built on more twigginess rather than on stilts. To do it over, I would have cut them shorter when it was in the stage yours is now. Better taper, movement and ramification.

its taking the hawthorn 12 years, your trident will halve the time.

Cut down and ready for spring. I'm letting the thin limbs in the back grow out to make them thicker.

jkd2572 said:

Cut down and ready for spring. I'm letting the thin limbs in the back grow out to make them thicker. View attachment 29610View attachment 29611

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Ouch! Wicked wire marks

Yeah that one got a bit tight. It's a trident. I will see how they fix themselves this summer.