If you've ever killed a tree, this might make you fell better

Brian Van Fleet · May 5, 2013

We all kill trees; have to break some eggs to make an omelet. I bought this omelet in 12/10. I asked to see the roots, but the request was denied. I should have walked, but I bought instead. It looked fairly healthy, and had been in the states for several years, so I figured it could handle the southern heat. The soil was bad, but I aerated it and back filled it with aggregate the next spring. I should have repotted it.

as purchased, then after Peter and I wired it the next fall.

Brian Van Fleet · May 5, 2013

Going, going

During 2012, entire branches turned brown and died, one or two at a time. I should have repotted...did I say that already?

Brian Van Fleet · May 5, 2013

What roots?

When I finally got curious enough to inspect the roots this spring, there weren't many. I cleaned it up, removed all the mush and as much of that nursery's soil as I could. It went into a small pot, with lots of quick-draining soil, and placed it under the bench to recover, maybe.

Brian Van Fleet · May 5, 2013

Gone.

The apex died shortly after, and the remaining two branches weren't far behind.

Brian Van Fleet · May 5, 2013

Post-mortem

What did I learn?

1. Grow what grows in your area. I can't stress this enough, and I keep teaching myself this the hard way.

2. Always inspect the roots when making a purchase. If you ask and the request is denied, do not buy. I was in this boat and took a gamble without being permitted to see the roots. I wish I would have just moved on.

3. When you find bad soil in the pot, replacing it should become the highest priority in the training plan.

4. If you suspect root-rot, get very curious very quickly.

5. Don't allow a root ball to freeze solid while the foliage is exposed to direct sunlight. Trees should be in the shade when frozen, or at least allowed to fluctuate as a whole.

amkhalid · May 5, 2013

Brother, I feel your pain.

Keep the corpse as a tool to teach students how to wire trees into a pot. But, more importantly, keep it so you can feel sick to your stomach every time you look at it.

Ugh now I'm thinking about all the trees I've killed. Total buzz kill.

Brian Van Fleet · May 5, 2013

Autopsy

It's not often I get a chance to dissect a tree like this, and I was curious about the graft and the age. Take a look.

Scraping away the flaky bark showed a decent union.
sawing through it, the scion appears pretty close to the center at the junction.

Brian Van Fleet · May 5, 2013

Lord of the rings...?

At the base, the scion seemed to show growth around the stock creating a heart-shape, most interesting. How many rings? I counted 47 clearly, +10 or so that were too close together at the center and outside.

EDIT: Osoyoung or another botany expert: what do you make of the darker wood vs. lighter wood in this second photo? What causes this?

Brian Van Fleet · May 5, 2013

And the result...

A $2000 coaster...

Beng · May 5, 2013

How would you inspect the roots if the seller recently repotted the tree? Pulling a tree out of its pot that was recently repotted a few months before could kill it. Esp if you bought it in the summer or has been in its pot less then a year. Or would you never buy a tree again that was repotted the same year? I tend to trust most bonsai people and would buy a newly repotted tree. I have many times including bare root trees from Chris Kirk at telperion. I did get one bad but from an eBay seller but was able to save it. I don't think there are many dishonest people that do bonsai. People that really are into bonsai are rarely up to no good. Although I'm sure there are a few bad nuts as with your experience.

Beng · May 5, 2013

Brian Van Fleet said:
A $2000 coaster...

That sucks who sold it to you?

Dav4 · May 5, 2013

That is truly a hard pill to swallow, but as you say, most of us have been there, and feel your pain. I personally have lost 4 imported satsuki azaleas (3 shohin, 1 chuhin), 2 collected lodgepole pines, and a promosing palmatum stump, all over the last 3 years. All of them died in a painfully slow way, like your pine, as if they wished to inflict as much emotional trauma as possible before going belly up. Still, I don't regret having purchased them, enjoyed them while they were happy, and learned from them in their decline and untimely death.....it still sucks, though

. That was a great tree, Brian. I know you're going to miss it.

Dav4 · May 5, 2013

Brian Van Fleet said:
A $2000 coaster...

Ahhh, glad to see you still have your sense of humor

.

coh · May 5, 2013

Painful and expensive lesson. Thanks for sharing the story.

I'm curious, though - you said in the original post that the soil was "bad". In what way was it bad? Too much organic material? And you could tell that the soil was bad without pulling it out of the pot to examine the roots, or did you do that after purchase? Trying to gain insight so others (like myself) can avoid similar issues.

Chris

Beng · May 5, 2013

Did you get it on eBay from 3017smith?

cmeg1 · May 5, 2013

Thanks for posting.Hang in there.I do feel better.Thanks

Nybonsai12 · May 5, 2013

While I prefer your success threads, I really appreciate you sharing this with us. A declining progression thread can be helpful too! Especially with the autopsy. Sorry for the loss though.

Adair M · May 5, 2013

Oh, my! That's a real shame, Brian, that one was a beauty. I don't blame you for buying it, it was quite seductive!

I've been having similiar issues with a much smaller (and less expensive) JWP purchased from probably the same place yours came from. I did a total repot this spring, and I was surprised at how poorly they had potted it. My issues began late last summer, when it suddenly dropped 1/2 it's foliage all over the tree. I lost several small branches, but none of the major ones. I'm hoping the repot saves it. New needles are beginning to emerge.

I agree with your "Grow what grows in your area" observation. That's why I favor JBP over JWP. To that end, I notice you are working with an Ezo Spruce. Any heat issues with it? Larry Jackel and I worked a yamadori Colorado Blue Spruce last weekend. It's a cute little thing, but I worry about our summer...

Brian Van Fleet · May 5, 2013

With very little investigative journalism, you could find where this tree came from. They're a good nursery, so I'd rather not attach it to this thread, but in my experience, their root work is secondary to explosive growth and inventory turnover. Their soil is very heavy, very organic, and it clearly works better with their watering and siting conditions than with mine.

Another interesting find is how the tree either responded to a Jin, or how the death of a branch made it pretty deep into the core of the tree. Take a look, the Jin is the right branch at the cut in the first two shots, left in the last. And, by the wide growth rings, that branch was a big one, growing fast.

Poink88 · May 5, 2013

Ouch!

If you have a bandsaw, you could have taken so many slices....you'll have a cat scan like document of your tree.

The base looks like a candidate for a mini root stand (a very expensive one) with little work.

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