Deadwood on Deciduous Trees

tmmason10 · Oct 30, 2012

Hey all,

I just wanted to see how the nuthouse felt about deadwood on deciduous trees. I've read it's a big no-no, but I'd like to hear some more opinions. I feel like there are plenty of examples of deadwood on deciduous trees in nature and was wondering what people thought about this.

The reason why I ask is that I purchased a run-down arakawa maple last week and the top had somehow died off either this year or last, not sure. I just love the bark and it was marked way down so I thought it'd be worth trying to bring this tree back. Let me know what you think.

Poink88 · Oct 30, 2012

MY thoughts is that it is okay. Carving is different from that of pine or juniper but is acceptable. They tend to turn into "uro" or hollows also than remain as "jin" which is just what happens in nature.

There are lots of deciduous tree with dead wood that are (high caliber) show winners in Europe actually.

HotAction · Oct 30, 2012

Poink is correct. In the case of this tree, remove the dead portion and carve a bit of a hollows at the junction where you have living branches. I would try to wire the rest into a broom style.

Jason · Oct 30, 2012

HotAction said:
Poink is correct. In the case of this tree, remove the dead portion and carve a bit of a hollows at the junction where you have living branches. I would try to wire the rest into a broom style.

I'd think about changing the planting angle and going informal upright. You have options though. Canopies can grow back relatively quickly. You still have an awesome trunk.

Stan Kengai · Oct 30, 2012

Big deadwood branches or trunks on a deciduous are not realistic, or just make the tree look unhealthy, IMHO. Hollows, on the other hand, are very natural, and I have seen very convincing ones.

rockm · Oct 30, 2012

Deadwood is fine on deciduous species, BUT it will look contrived on THIS PARTICULAR tree. As mentioned, replacing apex and canopy branching is pretty easy with most deciduous species. It's not as easy with conifers, which is one reason why jin are used on them--easier to just jin a branch on a pine than regrow it.

I'd just remove the dead portion and hope for a flush cut against the living trunk to hide its removal.

jk_lewis · Oct 30, 2012

And, from a "technical, bonsai-maintenance" standpoint, maintaining deadwood on most deciduous trees is a pain in the kazoo.

The wood of deciduous trees in most cases is not as resin-filled as that of conifers. As a result, deciduous trees tend to rot more easily, so your carefully-sculpted jins break off and your lovely shari turn into fungus-gathering hollows.

tmmason10 · Oct 30, 2012

Hotactions plan is essentially what was I was planning on doing when the time comes. I might start cutting back and wiring this fall.

The other option is to cut that entire trunk off but I think that would leave too much of a scar on the back of the tree. I got some deciduous material because I didn't have much but wanted to learn ramification techniques. Thanks for your responses.

rockm · Oct 30, 2012

It won't leave too much of a scar on the back of the tree. The location is inconsequential if it's on the back. In fact, most decidous trees are made exactly this way.With an arakawa and its rough bark, you're not going to notice the scar anyway if you carve out the wound a bit on the main trunk.

Zach Smith · Oct 31, 2012

For non-coniferous species, no jins but hollows are fine, also sections of bark along the trunk that were damaged and are healing over (implying a lightning strike for example), along the same lines larger branches that died and fell off or were knocked off in a storm and are healing over. All can look natural. For deciduous conifers such as bald cypress, whatever you like that looks natural. I'm working on a cypress right now that suffered dieback when collected, but I'm training a secondary trunk and will maintain the original dead trunk to mimic specimens I've seen in the wild.

It should be easy to see at a glance if your dead/healed area looks "right."

Good luck with your project!

Zach

GrimLore · Nov 6, 2012

Aside from "tech" views I think you have a real nice project there and it could look awesome

tmmason10 · Nov 6, 2012

GrimLore said:
Aside from "tech" views I think you have a real nice project there and it could look awesome

Thanks I appreciate it. I'm looking forward to working on it the next few years.

tmmason10 · May 9, 2013

Hotaction was dead on, here is the tree as of last night. Wired it a bit in February, letting it fill in and try to get a leader to fill out the middle. Thoughts?

MACH5 · May 9, 2013

Tom why don't you try making that right branch your leader?

tmmason10 · May 9, 2013

MACH5 said:
Tom why don't you try making that right branch your leader?

Good idea, let me see what's possible tomorrow. Thanks!

Brian Van Fleet · May 9, 2013

Good idea...use a heavy wire, then attach a guy wire to it and go slow and take a few weeks to get there. Arakawa is more brittle than standard J. Maple.

tmmason10 · Jul 2, 2013

Well I have just let it grow so far this year. I tried tweaking some branches and they started splitting at the forks, so I jus left it as is. We will see what we got this fall.

tmmason10 · Aug 22, 2013

This tree has done ok this year. Obviously not in refinement yet I let it go to try and find a new apex. I just realizes how bad the wire is cutting in and I'll remove it tonight.

What do you guys think of air layering off the back trunk where it was cut back, and using the first pic as a new front?

tmmason10 · Aug 22, 2013

I just realized how poor the pictures are, I will post better ones at some point.

jkd2572 · Aug 22, 2013

I would start a new thread of your own for this. Far less confusing.

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