When to remove the air layer?

xray360 · Jun 20, 2013

I air layered a maple early spring (over 8 weeks ago) and the bag is starting to fill with roots. Some are busting through the bag now so I'm not sure that if I wait too long it could be damaging to the air layer. Can air layers be removed in the summer and potted? I probably have a few more weeks till the entire bag is filled so that would put us right in summer.

Brian Van Fleet · Jun 20, 2013

Still too soon. Generally, you want the visible roots to be brown ("hardened off"). Wait until about 6-8 weeks before your area's first frost, then separate and SLIP POT into a larger container. Don't untangle or work the roots. Let it grow for the next 18 months in that container, then you can do aggressive root work in spring '15.

0soyoung · Jun 20, 2013

Since I have no idea how big the tree is above the layer, it is difficult to say that you've developed enough roots. If it is a relatively small branch, you are probably 'good to go', just be sure to stabilize it in its new pot without relying on those new roots (I attach a couple of sticks to the sides of a plastic pot and connect these to the explant near its top; I also drive a screw through the bottom of the pot into the stub below the roots if it is fairly large). Next season you can ditch the sticks.

If you are concerned that you don't have enough roots yet, you can fit a pot around the layer, remove your plastic wrap and fill the pot with bonsai soil. Your roots can further develop while still on the tree and harvesting can wait until later this season (or even next season) - just water the pot just like you would if the layer was separated.

xray360 · Jun 20, 2013

Here is a full picture. After the air layer is removed I plan to cut the bottom remainder down to the first branch and put it in the ground to thicken.

Brian Van Fleet · Jun 20, 2013

I stand by my original response...still too soon. That's WAY too much foliage to be supported by the small quantity of roots in that bag; going into the heat of summer. You risk nothing by waiting.

Dirty Nails · Jun 20, 2013

Brian - when you do an air layer and it is on a long branch with foliage when should you chop it? Before layering, when you cut it off or do you need to build a support to maintain the whole branch until the following spring?

Poink88 · Jun 20, 2013

Dirty Nails said:
Brian - when you do an air layer and it is on a long branch with foliage when should you chop it? Before layering, when you cut it off or do you need to build a support to maintain the whole branch until the following spring?

I am not Brian but based on your description...I don't think it is a good candidate for airlayering to begin with. But if you must...work backwards from your list. Never before layering, unless you can wait a year to grow a new top then come back the following year to layer.

Poink88 · Jun 20, 2013

Brian Van Fleet said:
I stand by my original response...still too soon. That's WAY too much foliage to be supported by the small quantity of roots in that bag; going into the heat of summer. You risk nothing by waiting.

I agree and I agree with Osoyoung too!

0soyoung · Jun 20, 2013

Seeing what you've got, I agree with Brian, but I also stick with my suggestion that you replace the bag of sphagnum with a pot of bonsai soil - you will get far faster root development.

Split a plastic pot down one side and half-way across the bottom. Cut a hole in the center of the bottom to pass the tree stem. Put some holes on each side of the sidewall cut to accomodate passing your fine wire so that it will hold the pot closed after you have it around the tree. Wrap some wire around the trunk or drive in some screws, say, to keep the pot from sliding down the tree, or suspend it by wires from branches above (see Murakana's photo series).

Then, after this is in place, put a thin layer of sphagnum in the bottom (this will keep your bonsai medium from falling out), pour in you medium (and optionally cover with another layer of sphagnum). Water the pot as though it was a separated tree (in fact, it will remain supported largely by the xylem flow from the roots of the tree you are layering).

xray360 · Jun 20, 2013

0soyoung said:
Seeing what you've got, I agree with Brian, but I also stick with my suggestion that you replace the bag of sphagnum with a pot of bonsai soil - you will get far faster root development.

Do you mean to remove the sphagnum or just the bag? I like the idea of putting a pot around it with soil.

0soyoung · Jun 20, 2013

xray360 said:
Do you mean to remove the sphagnum or just the bag? I like the idea of putting a pot around it with soil.

Just the bag.

Brian Van Fleet · Jun 20, 2013

Dirty Nails said:
Brian - when you do an air layer and it is on a long branch with foliage when should you chop it? Before layering, when you cut it off or do you need to build a support to maintain the whole branch until the following spring?

I try to leave as much as possible before I layer. The faster it's growing, the faster I get roots. The tree in the back right corner of this bed is a zelkova, which I've left mostly alone, then layered at the V this spring (second shot). Top growing hard, roots growing nicely too.

I'll separate it in a couple months, slip the new root mass and moss into a 1-gal can, and tie it in tightly. In spring '14, I'll cut the top back to primary branches, but not touch the roots. In spring '15, I'll spread out the roots and begin developing the nebari, definitely over a board or tile, and likely in the ground. After a couple more years, it will be ready to move into a pot for refinement.

fore · Jun 21, 2013

Brian Van Fleet said:
I try to leave as much as possible before I layer. The faster it's growing, the faster I get roots. The tree in the back right corner of this bed is a zelkova, which I've left mostly alone, then layered at the V this spring (second shot). Top growing hard, roots growing nicely too.

I'll separate it in a couple months, slip the new root mass and moss into a 1-gal can, and tie it in tightly. In spring '14, I'll cut the top back to primary branches, but not touch the roots. In spring '15, I'll spread out the roots and begin developing the nebari, definitely over a board or tile, and likely in the ground. After a couple more years, it will be ready to move into a pot for refinement.

I've done the tile/wood under developing trees several times. 3/4 of them just lifted up off the tile and gave me 'crows feet' for roots. Utter failure. There must be some trick, esp. working with 1-2y/o seedlings where you can't set a screw from the bottom into the trunk. I've done this with bigger trunks and works great. But just setting them on top of a tile...just doesn't work for me.

I've got an air layer going on a lg. Pyracantha that I can't wait to see if I get roots. I use small plastic pots filled w. Turface fines. Great media, but you can't see the root development.

yenling83 · Jun 21, 2013

fore said:
I've done the tile/wood under developing trees several times. 3/4 of them just lifted up off the tile and gave me 'crows feet' for roots. Utter failure. There must be some trick, esp. working with 1-2y/o seedlings where you can't set a screw from the bottom into the trunk. I've done this with bigger trunks and works great. But just setting them on top of a tile...just doesn't work for me.

I've got an air layer going on a lg. Pyracantha that I can't wait to see if I get roots. I use small plastic pots filled w. Turface fines. Great media, but you can't see the root development.

I think tiles are a bit overrated and have not had great sucess with them. Some fantastic Japanese Maple growers in Japan grow their maples in boxes and not in the growned for their whole lives. The key is to repot every few years and work on the roots during each repot, uncross, untangle, re direct. It just takes a log time to get good nebari. You could also do this with a tree in the ground, just dig it up every 2-3 years and work on the roots.

Another options is using the Ebihara Technique. Here's a picture of when I learned it at Boon's. Take a board and drill a hole through the board and into the trees base. Then use small nails or something similar to organize all the roots. Much more control of the roots this way. I've heard of some Japanese Pro's who like and others that don't.

coh · Jun 21, 2013

fore said:
I've done the tile/wood under developing trees several times. 3/4 of them just lifted up off the tile and gave me 'crows feet' for roots. Utter failure. There must be some trick, esp. working with 1-2y/o seedlings where you can't set a screw from the bottom into the trunk. I've done this with bigger trunks and works great. But just setting them on top of a tile...just doesn't work for me.

Quick and dirty method, just tie the plant/roots to the tile or board with wire. I did that with a bunch of plants this spring. Will let you know how it works in a couple of years

Chris

my nellie · Aug 26, 2013

fore said:
... ...I've got an air layer going on a lg. Pyracantha that I can't wait to see if I get roots. I use small plastic pots filled w. Turface fines. Great media, but you can't see the root development.

I've done a same air layer on a B. raintree or Acacia -don't know exactly what tree this is as it's growing in an alley near my house- and now I do not know how to check for roots.... What do you intend to do with yours? How long since you made it? I've made mine last March when the tree had just started to leaf. Do you have any idea when to separate the layer from mother tree?
Thank you everyone for any information/instruction.

Poink88 · Aug 26, 2013

fore said:
I've got an air layer going on a lg. Pyracantha that I can't wait to see if I get roots. I use small plastic pots filled w. Turface fines. Great media, but you can't see the root development.

Have you considered making an opening like a window or just slit 3 sides of a square like a table (inverted u) to peek through. Then tape it back up if need be.

0soyoung · Aug 26, 2013

fore said:
I use small plastic pots filled w. Turface fines. Great media, but you can't see the root development.

Yes, but one can use clear orchid pots instead of black plastic ones if you want to see the developing roots.

However, when populated with roots, the Turface will be bound up in the roots. If you gently 'brush' the surface of the soil with your fingers, working down into the bulk, you should find the Turface 'hardened' not far beneith the surface. If you don't, you don't have enough roots yet.

Checking the girdle for bridging obviously requires sliding the pot down the stem. Removing the pot to do this will make an infuriating mess! So it is not a good idea to rely on a branch underneith to support the pot of Turface, Rather it should be suspended from above or supported by some kind of removable stop on the stem to support the pot from below. This could be screws or it could be something like a c-clamp or hose clamp, say, because this area of the stem will not thicken anyway.

xray360 · Apr 24, 2014

Air layers removed.

At the end of last summer I removed the air layer and hard pruned it. Here is the parent tree (in bonsai training pot) and air layer (clay flower pot) in the spring.

When to remove the air layer?

Mame

Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy

Imperial Masterpiece

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Shohin

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