Help needed with Eu. Olive styling

JudyB · Sep 2, 2012

Here is an update on this tree. I repotted it into a Horst Heinzelrieter pot that suits it better shape wise. I was able to get almost all of the old crappy soil out, and did some branch reductions at that time. I then let it grow out the rest of the summer, and just finished doing the final reduction and wiring for this season. I didn't take it down as low as the corky bark part, but it feels much more in sync with the lower part, now that it's shorter, and not as heavy branched. I was able to retain the gnarly feeling of the tree by leaving all the lumpy parts. It will of course need to fill back in a bit...

I have not decided if this is the image I'll retain, but it's a nice way station at any rate. I believe it's better at least than when it started.... What say you?

milehigh_7 · Sep 2, 2012

Definite improvement! I am seeing this thread for the first time and reading through it, my impression at the first was very nice lower 1/3 and the top 2/3's someone tried to force it into a Japanese informal upright and that is not how olives grow. I think you are really moving in the right direction!

fore · Sep 4, 2012

I like it too Judy. Nice pot as well

JudyB · Sep 4, 2012

Thanks Clyde and Chris, I think this would make a great little shohin, but they are not my forte...

I couldn't bring myself to cut it drastically down, as the issue with bark matching would be the same with a new top (actually worse, as it'll take longer to get the bark on newer growth) I do think with patience I'll see the top bark up, there are sections that look to be forming this just above the bottom section.

I may do away with the top most apex section next year, and go wider, for a more natural olivey look.

Chris, I got the pot at Matsu, he did a really great pot sale this summer, I think there are still pots left. Here is a link.
http://www.matsumomiji.com/index.php?pr=Bonsai_Pots

be sure to click on each individual pot category in the header of the page to see all the pots that are left, great pots, great deals...I got some D.Cochoy's too.

Attila Soos · Sep 4, 2012

Good job so far, Judy. I see that some of the branches start out from the trunk in a slightly upward angle (as opposed to coming out horizontal, or downward). This is a very important design choice, to create a naturalistic-looking olive. The branches should start out going up, and then the secondary branches are used to create the downward sweep that an old-looking tree needs. You can also create a curving branch, that starts out upward, and then changes direction towards horizontal and even downward (without creating the bow-shape, of course). This doesn't mean that every single main branch HAS to grow up. A tree has all kind of branches. So should this. But you need a few that are growing upward (and I am not just talking about the top branches),or else the tree will take on the look that I don't need to mention here.

Also, the branches that are growing upwards, need to be a little thicker than usual. This tree will have a clear main trunk, and that's all right, although olives tend to grow competing trunk lines within one tree. But the upward growing branches are very strong, so they should look more than just another side-branch.

JudyB · Sep 4, 2012

Thanks Attila, before I began the reduction, I studied many photos of old olives. Although I'll never be able to mimic that multi trunk line ideal with this tree, I did what I could to mimic the spread, and I did also notice the upward angles at the trunk of the branching.
work in progress as they say, thank you for the help, I appreciate it.
J

JudyB · Sep 7, 2012

I'm wavering again.... Although this is an improved image, I am still really leaning toward chopping the entire top off above the lower branches. If I do this, should I leave a large stub, hope for some inner buds to break on it to fill the interior, and then carve it down? Can this be a believable tree with only those lower branches? I don't know how much I'll be able to bend them up a bit, and don't want to do a cascade, which is all I could think of when it was suggested before. But maybe it could be that the lower branches could become the basis of a spreading natural profile...??? I imagine this will need to wait till next year, although I give this plenty of winter protection, could I possibly get away with it now?

Anybody have any thoughts?

Attila Soos · Sep 7, 2012

Is it because you want to make it smaller, or because you want something that resembles some kind of broom/oak style?

Too late to cut it now, and also, woundn't make a good cascade.

JudyB · Sep 7, 2012

Yes, I'm still unhappy with the single trunk structure.
Even though it is better and I tried to rationalize that it's acceptable now, it's still bothering me.

I want it to resemble an old OLIVE.

When it was suggested to cut it back to just above the lowest branches, I couldn't see a way forward to make it into a tree like form from there, was seeing just the presented form without the top, and only saw bad cascade possibilities. Now I think I can see a way...

I know it's too late for cutting... just wishing it wasn't. Next year, I'll gather up my courage and do it. But I'd still like to know if this could be a workable broom starting without any middle section.

Don't know why this tree is stymieing me, I usually just go for it once I see the options.

JudyB · Jul 5, 2013

Well... I chopped it!!!

I finally cut the top portion off of this tree. I am still not sure it was the right course, but it certainly was the right time to do it. Since I knew I would want some new budding options, I didn't repot it, just mostly defoliated, did a bit of pruning, and chopped it.

It has responded fast and started to pop new buds, ( some are very large) all over, even low in the cork of the trunk. I did leave a bit of the old upper tree, hoping to get a couple buds low on that portion, as it could be believable as a branch after I shorten it later to a new bud. I didn't want to try to figure out what to do with a large scar in the middle of the current branches. Not sure where I'm going with this now, I could use a bit of help if anyone is so inclined to suggest anything. Lots of angles (6) to look at and some pictures of the buds (never seen such gigantic buds!) so I'll have to do a few posts to get them all in. Starting from the furthest left front that is workable, rotating clockwise...

JudyB · Jul 5, 2013

And the last shot of the furthest workable front on the right, and bud shots.

JudyB · Jul 5, 2013

of course I saved the top!

Hoping that the top will root and make a clump style tree. I wonder if I should take the remaining leaves off? I am letting the humidifier mist off and on, and using a heat mat to stimulate roots.

MrFancyPlants · Jul 5, 2013

Nice! I like the top section a lot. Here is to hoping it roots.

And the bottom section turned out quite nice as expected.

coh · Jul 5, 2013

There you go! A course has been set for the future of this tree. I think the shortened version will take best advantage of that great lower trunk. Looking forward to seeing it develop...I'm not really familiar with olives, either as old landscape trees or bonsai.

Hopefully the top will root, as that looks like it could make a nice specimen as well.

Chris

JudyB · Sep 22, 2013

update

Here is the tree after some new growth. I think it will take off next summer! The top (severed portion) isn't actively growing leaves, but it's not dead yet either, so I imagine there are roots growing.

These things are funny, it'll push out new growth so fast, then just screech to a halt, almost like taking a breath, then go again. I think that now it's cooling down too much for more, but this is a good start for the new direction. I did reduce the old trunk even more from the last pictures, I may rid myself of it entirely and make the uro....

dkraft81 · Sep 22, 2013

Thanks for the update Judy. Itll be interesting to see how things go next summer. Hoping the top takes off to, itll make an interesting bonsai.

JudyB · Oct 6, 2013

Hard to believe that I'm actually posting this again so late in the year, but it's had another growth spurt, and I have wired yet again. I did wind up taking the last nub of the old trunk off, so much better. I'm finally beginning to see something in this....

I took some photos against a white background, but for some reason you loose definition on the tree, even though it is less confusing to look at. I do not understand how to take photos.

fore · Oct 6, 2013

Missed this one, awesome bark on that Judy! This will be a cool little tree when more developed.

Chris

bonsaibp · Oct 6, 2013

Way to go! It may take a little while, but I think you made the best choice. This is going to be a really cool little tree.

JudyB · Oct 6, 2013

bonsaibp said:
Way to go! It may take a little while, but I think you made the best choice. This is going to be a really cool little tree.

I agree although it was tough to do it. Today was the first day that I actually started to like where it's going.

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