Root rot paranoia

Hi All

About 2 weeks ago I repotted a Ficus, I did minimal root work and quite frankly everything about the new pot and planting mix is better than it used to be.
It's been behaving normally, some leaves yellowed.......and then some more leaves yellowed....

I spent some time with it yesterday and got a whiff like root rot that I don't like.
I poked around a bit and could find no further evidence of root rot.

My planting mix is swimming pool filter sand, >10% palm peat and a little bit of fertilizer....including pelletized chicken manure.
I'm hoping the smell is from that.....

Is there any home remedy I could try that would stop possible rot?

What is the size of the pool filter sand? We have a pool, but don't use the sand. Sounds like this mix may be holding too much water still...

Do you think 2 weeks is enough that it has got root rot allready ? chicken manure smells alot... specially when moist

I doubt it is root rot so soon -- and it certainly would not reach the level of smell in that amount of time.

HOWEVER, I'd really, really rethink your choice of soil mixes. Even the coarse filter sand is pretty fine for bonsai soil, and from what I know of it, "palm peat" (or any peat) is MUCH too fine to be included in the mix. Chicken poop should not be used unless it has "aged" for a year.

You don't say what kind of fig it is, but yellowing leaves after root work is not uncommon -- and is almost mandatory if it is a willow-leaf fig.

If your soil is holding too much water, you would often expect to see yellowing and dropping leaves on the ficus prior to any root rot setting in. What species of ficus is it?

Get yourself a wooden chopstick or skewer and stick it into the soil, wait a day and then pull it out and check if the stick is moist and to what level of the stick. Using this method you can wait until the soild dries out before watering again.

Particle size is a big key as mentioned before. Do you have any pics of the tree?

The Amputee


Hi All

Not sure about the exact species, figure it must be a Microcarpa of some sort.

Regarding the sand, it's slightly less than 1mm particle size.
This stuff is a bit of a revolution for me, I've been planting in finer river sand all these years simply because I've never been able to source anything better.

Please also keep in mind that I live in a desert, and in 2 months time it'll be a daily struggle to keep my trees from drying out while I'm at work.

The palm peat is the only/best organic material I could get to improve the water retention slightly and won't rot.

This photo is about 3 months old, I've been wanting to do a progression thread on this tree (it has a funny story) but now I'm waiting to see if it survives. I've had it for 7 years, and finally after finding the courage to chop off a leg is it starting to look like a tree 8)

This was about the 5th re-pot I've done on this tree, and despite the opinions about my soil mix, I promise you this is the best it's ever been in!
We've just had funny weather that (I think) meant it stayed too wet.


Only option I can think of now if pulling it out and planting it in straight sand and keep it pretty dry, but I really don't want to do that......

I've moved it into a slightly sunnier spot and inclined the pot......fingers x'ed

Gerhard,

do a test, try this, blend 5mm sand with your compost. If your weather is that dry, you may need to do your observations on a simple porous earthenware pot, a colander [c] get someone to glaze or paint the outside of an earthenware pot -- but not the base.
Nothing deeper than 6" [ 15 cm ].

Remember for almost 6 months we go to desert dry conditions.

Fortunately, we also go cold enough to get a dormant state for 2 or 3 months. Plants are transplanted after Jan 2nd. and have enough time to grow into a compost / inorganic mix. One of the inorganics can hold water internally.

Watering is by hand, a watering can, from January until almost June [ this year end of July. Supposedly very active hurricane season this year, fortunately we are 1 deg out of the normal path of Hurricanes, but it will dry out our area.]

The idea is simple, the trees are rootbound or control the soil by the time the rains fall. So no root rot.

Additionally tests are showing the ficus preferring, mostly inorganic and little compost. These are the ficus types that grow on walls, concrete, stone, old buildings and rooftops.
You may wish to take that into your test.

As usual, try it out on expendables.
Good Evening
Anthony

Hi

I hope these pics help a bit.
I have always been extremely limited as far as choices of planting medium is concerned, and I can assure you all that by a country mile this sand is the best stuff I've found to date.
I've been at this since 2006 and I dare say I read more than most, I've asked many questions on this subject, and gone with what I can afford.......which at times is not a lot.

I used coconut hair until that ran out like I'm using the palm peat now, and as you can (hopefully) see from the photos, it's most likely less than 10% of the total.
In fact the organic component is so minimal I don't really measure....

I know it needs a trim and a wire, but this tree is very encouraging for me, it showed me what can be done in a short time if the right (tough) choices are made...loosing it now would be a kick in the (bonsai)nuts

Gerhard,

try composting the palm peat, before you make your mix. As Ficus types go, for what we get, the tree looks very sparse for the size of container, as leaves / branches go.

Additionally just try and build a compost heap. Try the larger sized sand [ aquarium gravel, even the acrylic painted type .]

I will ask Khaimraj to ask a friend to take a shot of a Ficus, and you can compare the density of leaf, over on IBC.
Good Evening.
Anthony

From those pics you have major issues with yellowing leaves, however if they are not dropping off then i don't think overwatering is the problem. What is your water source and fertilizer schedule? It looks like the plant may have a few deficiencies or is possibly suffering from chlorosis.

I am your neighbor, in Zambia. Not much difference in climate. I use almost total inorganic mix of broken village bricks, sand sieved>4mm, and washed laterite. Some friends in SA add some garden loam to their mix, with very good results.
What I can see is that you have too many leaves on your fig. You need to balance the leaf mass to the root mass, and if you disturb,reduce the root mass,you need to reduce the leaf mass.. Every time I transplant I reduce the leaves or chop branches. Most of the time figs I defoliate.
I think your tree is getting too much sun at the moment too. You need to keep it in the shade for some few weeks after transplanting. It is a normal reaction of the tree to have yellow leaf when the roots are disturbed and have to cope with the same leaf mass. also this days it has been getting very hot midday.
I DONT WATER MY FIGS THE FIRST DAY AFTER TRANSPLANTING, and after that only after the top is dry.

What is the little tree in a pot on top of the blue pot.

Anthony said:

Gerhard,

try composting the palm peat, before you make your mix. As Ficus types go, for what we get, the tree looks very sparse for the size of container, as leaves / branches go.

Additionally just try and build a compost heap. Try the larger sized sand [ aquarium gravel, even the acrylic painted type .]

I will ask Khaimraj to ask a friend to take a shot of a Ficus, and you can compare the density of leaf, over on IBC.
Good Evening.
Anthony

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Hi Anthony
I've got a compost heap going, but nothing I can use yet.
I can buy compost (actually have some left), but it's always caused more problems than it solved, it tends to rot, and this is what led me to coconut hair and later palm peat when that ran out......organic material that take long to degrade.....
I'm not sure you understand what I'm using, please google 'palm peat block'.....no idea how I could compost that....?
BTW, I hope to post pics of the progression of this tree over the weekend, keep in mind it's lost a lot of leaves already, compared to the 1st pic.
Also keep in mind the first pic was taken in the dead of winter.....sunshine & all!
I was busy building branches last season, wire bit in and I removed it for the winter, the last bit of growth angled up again, but most of that will go anyway....

k2bonsai said:

From those pics you have major issues with yellowing leaves, however if they are not dropping off then i don't think overwatering is the problem. What is your water source and fertilizer schedule? It looks like the plant may have a few deficiencies or is possibly suffering from chlorosis.

Click to expand...

Our water comes from the Orange river, treated obviously but extremely good quality compared to what myself and my trees grew up on in our capitol city, at least that's what the reaction of my trees tells me.
I lived & worked here 2009-2010 and came 2012, so I've been able to compare.

I have to admit that I'm not exactly religious when it comes to fertilization, I use several types including:
-2:3:2 grow sticks (might be BS)
-Foliar feed with micro elements etc etc
-Kelp and Fish emulsion based verts
-Bounce back - pelletized chicken manure (BTW, all my ficus loves this stuff!)

Regular.....but not regular enough

Please compare to the 1st photo, a lot of leaves yellowed and dropped, I leaf-pruned about another 30%, but it does look like the yellowing has slowed down....

Neli said:

I am your neighbor, in Zambia. Not much difference in climate. I use almost total inorganic mix of broken village bricks, sand sieved>4mm, and washed laterite. Some friends in SA add some garden loam to their mix, with very good results.
What I can see is that you have too many leaves on your fig. You need to balance the leaf mass to the root mass, and if you disturb,reduce the root mass,you need to reduce the leaf mass.. Every time I transplant I reduce the leaves or chop branches. Most of the time figs I defoliate.
I think your tree is getting too much sun at the moment too. You need to keep it in the shade for some few weeks after transplanting. It is a normal reaction of the tree to have yellow leaf when the roots are disturbed and have to cope with the same leaf mass. also this days it has been getting very hot midday.
I DONT WATER MY FIGS THE FIRST DAY AFTER TRANSPLANTING, and after that only after the top is dry.

Click to expand...

Hi Neli

I've only traveled from Kazangula to Livingstone to catch a plane (was working on Impalila at that stage), but I do know it's a gross generalization about the climate
I currently live and work in Rosh Pinah (not the one in Israel ), go ahead and google it, desert for the most part and nothing much grows higher than 1m, few Acacia and Sheppard's bush scattered thin on the ground Many succulents of course, and some micro climates in the mountains that are greener.

I'm a but surprised, as mentioned I've re-potted this tree many times before, I have on occasion done way more root work (this time was minor).
My first suspicion was maybe a cavity under the tree, so about a week after the re-pot I submerged it in a tub and worked over the soil by hand and with a chopstick, pretty sure that if there was a cavity it's gone now.

Neli said:

What is the little tree in a pot on top of the blue pot.

Click to expand...

One of the local succulents, found it halfway up the mountain behind the mine "growing" in about half a cup worth of dust in a tiny rock crevice.......seems to resent the good treatment it's received in the mean time but there seems to be new growth.

Funny place this, one side of the mountain is dead, and the side catching mist from the ocean looks like your walking around in somebody's rock garden, succulents of all shapes and sizes, extremely small but very beautiful wild flowers.
One of the succulents even has a woody trunk, and the wood is extremely hard!

If you are in the desert then our climates are not the same for sure, but the seasons are the same. I have a strong feeling, your fig will be just fine. Are the leafs dropping ones they yellow, or staying on the tree.
My oyakata gave me a lesson on trees drying...and symptoms. What he said is:
If the leaves yellow and drop, the tree will be fine. It is a reaction to the transplanting, but if the leaves dry and remain on the tree, You should be very worried. Pines dont drop their leaves and just die too.

GerhardG said:

One of the local succulents, found it halfway up the mountain behind the mine "growing" in about half a cup worth of dust in a tiny rock crevice.......seems to resent the good treatment it's received in the mean time but there seems to be new growth.

Funny place this, one side of the mountain is dead, and the side catching mist from the ocean looks like your walking around in somebody's rock garden, succulents of all shapes and sizes, extremely small but very beautiful wild flowers.
One of the succulents even has a woody trunk, and the wood is extremely hard!

Click to expand...

I would love to see this place. It sounds fantastic. How I wish you can send me some pictures of those succulents.

Neli said:

If you are in the desert then our climates are not the same for sure, but the seasons are the same. I have a strong feeling, your fig will be just fine. Are the leafs dropping ones they yellow, or staying on the tree.
My oyakata gave me a lesson on trees drying...and symptoms. What he said is:
If the leaves yellow and drop, the tree will be fine. It is a reaction to the transplanting, but if the leaves dry and remain on the tree, You should be very worried. Pines dont drop their leaves and just die too.

Click to expand...

Hi Neli

Correct about the seasons.
What little I saw of Zambia makes me think you have a much better climate.
My one enduring thought regarding Livingstone is "they should have enough mangos!"
I was always amazed by the massive trees on the Zambian bank of the Zambezi, while on our side it's floodplains and papyrus......
I just hope those trees survive the Chinese invasion that's stuffing up the fish & wildlife so thoroughly.....with local help of course

I don't know whether it's just optimism, but it looks like some of the buds want to break. The yellowing leaves drop by themselves or at the lightest touch...let's hope!

GerhardG said:

Hi Neli


I just hope those trees survive the Chinese invasion that's stuffing up the fish & wildlife so thoroughly.....with local help of course

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What are they doing this time?