Rocky Mountain white pines...anyone working with?

M. Frary · Oct 5, 2013

Here's a picture of a bristlecone that I got this spring. Glad to hear Mr. Wood has one so I can follow his threads as it progresses along. I believe I'm in for the long haul with this tree. All I've done to it was to get half of the clay out of the root ball and put it in a mix of floor dry and pea gravel and then this summer cut about 10" off the top.I also cut some branches back. Next season it just gets to grow freely. Doesn't seem to need much water.

M. Frary · Oct 5, 2013

Oops. Here's the pic.

Dan W. · Oct 5, 2013

That looks like a good trunk. I have two small bristlecones, but neither of them have been re-potted yet; I believe that will happen next spring. Is yours the Rocky Mountain version... Aristata?

M. Frary · Oct 5, 2013

Yes it is Aristata. I looked it up and it says as much as 3" of growth per year. They're real speed demons.

Dan W. · Oct 5, 2013

They sure are!...lol. Slow and steady, that's how they live so long I guess.

fourteener · Oct 5, 2013

Victrinia Ensor said:
I could deal with needle length if I could get reliable back-budding. I just don't know the trigger. There is always one... you just have to figure it out.

I don't have any recent photos of the EWP, but if I can find an old one, I'll show it to you.

V

My experience with EWP is that they take longer to recover than any other species I have gathered. After they have recovered, I pinch the candles And get light to the branches. I wire and thin one year, pinch buds hard the next year and I get buds everywhere, but only after it is healthy.

Gathered larch: one season to recover
Gathered cedar: one season
Gathered Scots: one- two
Gathered EWP: two-three seasons to recover

Vance Wood · Oct 5, 2013

M. Frary said:
Here's a picture of a bristlecone that I got this spring. Glad to hear Mr. Wood has one so I can follow his threads as it progresses along. I believe I'm in for the long haul with this tree. All I've done to it was to get half of the clay out of the root ball and put it in a mix of floor dry and pea gravel and then this summer cut about 10" off the top.I also cut some branches back. Next season it just gets to grow freely. Doesn't seem to need much water.

I am afraid that you are mistaken. I am sorry if I gave you the impression that I am currently working with Bristlecone Pine. That can change in a heart beat if I run into one that is available. For years I made the attempt to get someone who has collected a good one from the mountains to post some pictures, but to no avail. I do not now have one.

M. Frary · Oct 5, 2013

Sorry. I was mistaken. Darn it.

Vance Wood · Oct 6, 2013

M. Frary said:
Sorry. I was mistaken. Darn it.

Yah me too!

augustine · Oct 6, 2013

Dan,

I,m growing Pinus strobiformis bought from Evergreen Gardenworks. The tree is a vigorous grower and the needles can be grown to an acceptable size for a larger bonsai. Great back budding and predictable.

I saw the Rochester exhibition books published by Mr valavanis. There are some folks doing, IMO, world class bonsai with Pinus strobiformis and flexilis, collected trees. (Scott Elser is one guy.)

I would recommend Pinus strobiformis, southwestern wht pine.

Best to all,

Augustine

Dan W. · Oct 6, 2013

Thanks Augustine, I've seen some nice ones for sure. I had the privilege of visiting Scott Elser's garden this spring and saw quite a few very nice limbers (flexilis) there. I also got to see Greg Brendens cascade South Western too! I agree that a lot of great work is being done with these native white pines; I just hope more folks will share their trees and experience.

Vance Wood · Oct 6, 2013

Dan W. said:
Thanks Augustine, I've seen some nice ones for sure. I had the privilege of visiting Scott Elser's garden this spring and saw quite a few very nice limbers (flexilis) there. I also got to see Greg Brendens cascade South Western too! I agree that a lot of great work is being done with these native white pines; I just hope more folks will share their trees and experience.

I look forward to the experience. The problem is that the White Pines are an over-all fussy tree at best; and I include the Bristlecones as well. They seem to be susceptible to a number of fungal diseases and can also vex us with windows of opportunity, culturally, that if not hit, mean disaster or set back. Couple that with those who seem to have success with them not sharing what they know or what they have done. I see little islands of success here and there, or I hear about them, but to date precious little has been made public.

augustine · Oct 6, 2013

I live in the Chesapeake Bay Area, very humid. About two months after I got the SW white pine it did get needlecast. I used lime sulphur in the dormant season and daconil monthly during the growing season. The new foliage this year is fine.

Otherwise, full sun and it's pretty thirsty. I use micronutrients on my pines, 1 x per yr, and systemic insecticide. I fed every two weeks but will have to use the JWP method to reduce foliage when it's time to refine. (Limiting water and withholding fert til the new needles harden, August in my area.) I pinched the candles in strong areas. Lots of new buds. I'll remove ( cut) some interior needles later in late fall to allow light into the inner branches. May apply some wire? It's had a good year.

Any tips are welcome. A very knowledgable person advised to treat it like a JWP.

Augustine

Dan W. · Dec 13, 2013

Here are some of the Limber pines we've been collecting here in Wyoming. These are some of my favorites.

How about a larger picture of the first tree I posted... (Not much has changed since this first shot yet. )

More...

Vance Wood · Dec 14, 2013

Absolutely gorgeous trees Dan, mouth watering and all frought with potential. What is your success ratio in harvesting them? What time of year do you harvest them? About what elevation?

fore · Dec 14, 2013

Great to see more Limbers Dan! I hope we start to use them more here. And you do have several that are super nice! Well done!

Chris

Poink88 · Dec 14, 2013

Dan W. said:
Here are some of the Limber pines we've been collecting here in Wyoming. These are some of my favorites.

These 2 are, for me, the cream of the crop.

Awesome trees!

dick benbow · Dec 14, 2013

all my pines are in the vegetable garden, dug into the soil in their pots and covered with bark for the winter.

In the three years that I have worked with the whitebarks they have colored up nicely blue
and needle length has etended to proper length. They are quite slow growing. They came from
a bonsai nursery that went into neglect and the soil was poor where planted. Now covered over with blackberries. When dug the needles were about half the needle length and a poor yellow green in color. There are about half a dozen left that I intend to harvest this spring. most are shohin size. most folks in the club interested and i have been using them to trade
for things like suiseki stones. So hopefully we'll get a few out into other hands to be able to learn from.

I try to give them plenty of sunshine and a little skimpy on rain water due to their history
from wence they come. Like most white pine, easy to wire. Both efforts a struggle here in seattle where there's more rain then sunshine.

Vance Wood · Dec 14, 2013

dick benbow said:
all my pines are in the vegetable garden, dug into the soil in their pots and covered with bark for the winter.

In the three years that I have worked with the whitebarks they have colored up nicely blue
and needle length has etended to proper length. They are quite slow growing. They came from
a bonsai nursery that went into neglect and the soil was poor where planted. Now covered over with blackberries. When dug the needles were about half the needle length and a poor yellow green in color. There are about half a dozen left that I intend to harvest this spring. most are shohin size. most folks in the club interested and i have been using them to trade
for things like suiseki stones. So hopefully we'll get a few out into other hands to be able to learn from.

I try to give them plenty of sunshine and a little skimpy on rain water due to their history
from wence they come. Like most white pine, easy to wire. Both efforts a struggle here in seattle where there's more rain then sunshine.

Drool, drool, drool.

Dan W. · Dec 14, 2013

Thanks Dick, Chris and Vance. - Dick, I may have to try getting my hands on one of those white-bark's sometime.

Vance, I'd say the Limbers really start showing up around 7000' and up. They're generally the highest elevation pine around here. -- We start collecting in spring as soon as the roots are thawed out; which is generally late April to early May, but it's different every year depending on winter. (late may in the highest elevations - especially these Limbers) - As long as it stays wet and somewhat cool (but I think moisture is key) we can collect into June. July is always very hot, and VERY dry, and we have not had much success in these conditions, so we focus everything around the weather conditions. It starts raining and cooling off again in August and we're able to collect up through fall. - Anything collected late fall has to be protected for the winter though. -- Our success rate is easily 90-95%, it was less when we started out, but we collected a lot more junk then. We've gotten very picky and don't collect as many any more.

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