I don't really understand - pads

Hey Vance, Rob, and anyone else, I don't really understand this - pad - stuff, so I am posting the most simple images I can find of how a tree might be trained down here.

These were on IBC because, it was the first time the Fukien teas had insect problems, now resolved. Normally they are not defoliated.
Anyhow look at the branches - grow and clip [ Lingnan] and I will add more if need be of other trees.

Owen. r.1 is a Catlin Elm [ shown on BSG]

They get their density from optimising branch placement.
Good Day
Anthony

Refined, well structured pads are usually a sign that a tree is, for lack of a better term, near completion. Sometimes with deciduous, trees rely on heavy ramification to fill in the entire tree. Sometimes with Penjing, there are less obvious pads or or just branches that are structured like some of the pics you have shown. However, almost all bonsai form some sort of pad like structures. If not, they would just be bushes. In a way, pads are bonsai. It is not really something to rebel against or dissected. It is just part of the art. We strive to get our trees to the final image we pictured for them. Trying to dissect it and understand why will probably lead to more confusion. When you visit bonsai nurseries and exhibitions, almost all the trees have some form of pads.

Here are some incredible bonsai, all with pads. Some loose, some well manicured.

Rob

Rob,

thank you. You gave me the answer I was looking for - heavy ramification.

Well I guess that is the difference with trees grown in this garden, they use heavy ramification.

Pads would not give the look of our local trees, add on the domes and you have our version of the Tropical look.We also use a good deal of negative space and the internal of the tree is very empty. Most of everything is on the exterior.

This what the big Fukien tea looked like in an old image.
Good Day
Anthony

Rob,

here is the same Fukien tea, with it's foliage coming back to normal.
Once again, the leaves are carried only on the exterior.
Please note, this is how the tree is rested and this is not an exhibition shot.
Good Day'
Anthony

Anthony said:

Rob,

here is the same Fukien tea, with it's foliage coming back to normal.
Once again, the leaves are carried only on the exterior.
Please note, this is how the tree is rested and this is not an exhibition shot.
Good Day'
Anthony

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Hi Anthony, it is a nice tree. From a bonsai standpoint, there are things you could do to greatly improve the image of this tree, even without pads. First, cut off the small branch at the bottom, it is taking away from the trunk. Second, a little further up on the right, it looks like there are 2 branches that are crossing each other, if one could be wired out of the way or cut off, it would make for a smoother image. Next, a little further up, there is a branch growing straight up, almost like another young trunk running vertically to the main one. Removing that and letting the other branches fill in the space would also improve this tree. Lastly, all secondary branches coming off main branches that are growing straight up, should be cut or wired down. Also, opening up sections of the tree would make for a more beautiful image.

Think of this. If you planted this tree in a regular pot and only saw the upper half of the tree, would it look like a bonsai or a regular potted plant.

All in all, this is a very nice tree. As I said earlier, these improvements are from a bonsai point of view or criteria. Also, I have said nothing that I would not suggest in critiquing my own trees. I actually critique my own trees a little more harshly. I subscribe to the thinking that although you should always be happy with your accomplishments, you should never be satisfied.

Rob

NOOOO MORE PAD TAAAAALK!!! Just kidding! Beautiful trees Anthony, that Fukien Tea is outstanding.

Rob,

I wanted to say thank you for taking the time to comment and it was very helpful.
The tree was rested, and fertilised well after the defoliation escapade. The lowest
branch to the front and side is presently being allowed to run away, and hopefully thicken.

Fortunately, the foliage is back to normal and very dense. The soil is spent and the tree awaits repotting, which starts 2nd January.
The actual trunk to the mid-top was grown in China, as this tree was imported from China by Miami Tropical Bonsai, and then imported by a local plant nursery.
It was given to Uncle K as either a Christmas gift or Birthday gift back around 98 or so.
He just grow out the branches.

It was also acquired with the trunk hollowed out by the Chinese. It is apparently really old as the wood has never rotted, and we have ground grown up tp 8" trunks of it's children and then had them rot out [ from being dug up ] or eaten out by termites.
A shrub with a great deal of history.

Cypress - just to say - Thank You !
Good Day
Anthony

Very nice fukien tea, I really like it. With a little trim and wire, I think it could be nicer.

Hiya Dario,

welcome back!!

This shrub will be out of commission for probably 5 more years as some time will be spent thickening branches and tightening back up to the pre-drawn design.
Happy to show again in that time, and hopefully it will meet your standards.

Good to see you back again.
Good Day
Anthony

Anthony said:

...hopefully it will meet your standards.

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Anthony,

As you know I am a newbie (with low standards ). The tree far exceeded that but I believe it has more to give with very little work. FT are (in my experience) resistant to wiring after they hardened so it is best to position the branches as early as possible. That is all. Pruning I am not concerned unless they impact the health of needed adjoining or lower branches.

Thanks!

Of all the styles of trees, a broom style tree is the one that is least likely to have pads of foliage. A broom style tree should have some moments of negative space, but those spaces won't be horizontal to the ground like other styles. With your Fukien Tea, if you want to go with a broom style this is less important. If you want to make an informal upright, then wiring branches down, creating space and pads of foliage is an option to pursue.

Fourteener,

what I am trying to explain is, the trees down here, function on - ramification.

Trees on our side use domes, upside down bowls, Dario should remember his home trees, think mango.

Not as stylised as a Broom [ Zelkova ] but using ramification to hold leaves on the exterior.

If you take a read on IBC, Robert Stevens, Jun and a few others from the East Indies, are trying to get local growers away from the Pine tree look.
Our trees use mounds. So the fukien tea was grown to take advantage of it carrying it's leaves on the outside.

What you cannot see without extreme 45 deg. lighting, is the dips that come with multiple mounds. Once again, a mango tree.

Here is the best I could find of a mango tree, and I have tried to enhance the mounds, with some negative space.
Best I can do presently- Apologies.
Good Day
Anthony

Anthony said:

Fourteener,

what I am trying to explain is, the trees down here, function on - ramification.

Trees on our side use domes, upside down bowls, Dario should remember his home trees, think mango.

Not as stylised as a Broom [ Zelkova ] but using ramification to hold leaves on the exterior.

If you take a read on IBC, Robert Stevens, Jun and a few others from the East Indies, are trying to get local growers away from the Pine tree look.
Our trees use mounds. So the fukien tea was grown to take advantage of it carrying it's leaves on the outside.

What you cannot see without extreme 45 deg. lighting, is the dips that come with multiple mounds. Once again, a mango tree.

Here is the best I could find of a mango tree, and I have tried to enhance the mounds, with some negative space.
Best I can do presently- Apologies.
Good Day
Anthony

Click to expand...

That's a great sample for a kingsville boxwood . I like it

Anthony said:

Trees on our side use domes, upside down bowls, Dario should remember his home trees, think mango.

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Yes I do, and I think it is true here too...for most broad leaf evergreens. I think some do not see enough of these trees though so they may not understand or relate.

Trees grow a certain way depending on various factors but ultimately, leaves are mostly just within (a few feet) outside the tree (bec. no sunlight reaches further inside). A solitary tree on a field grows differently from a similar kind but grown in the forest, or a ravine, etc.

Just had some fun. Your tree with pads.

looks like a pine - ha ha ha
Thanks Neli.
Good Day
Anthony

Ma Neli,
me as a youngster -

http://i26.servimg.com/u/f26/15/66/48/20/fu10.jpg

Had something like this in mind...just that my virtuals are And it is true...everything comes out like pines...Need to adjust too much pine styling.

Anthony said:

looks like a pine

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Neli said:

...And it is true...everything comes out like pines...Need to adjust too much pine styling.

Click to expand...

I came from a place where pine is almost none existent and I too tend to style some of my broadleaf like pine now. Is it because it is easier that way? Or am I getting brainwashed by most of the (Japanese influenced) pics I see in books, online, here, etc.? Or both?

The fact that there are no pines or trees with pads in one's area does not have to limit one's options in bonsai. The ficus that I posted early in this thread, I believe they are from Taiwan. You see incredible tropical bonsai from tropical climates with pads all the time.

Also, I never subscribed to the "styled like a pine" saying. A pine is a pine. Just because a tree has pads and is well balanced does not make it "styled like a pine". There is no such thing as a pine style. In bonsai, there is formal, informal, slant, semi cascade and cascade styles (also, substyles). After Neli's virt, Anthony's tree is a nice example of an informal upright.

All the masterpiece azalea bonsai in Japan are mostly informal upright styles. They are not azaleas styled like pines, they are azaleas in the informal upright style.

Rob

Rob,

Just to clarify, I have no aversion to pads. Some trees have pads where I came from (depending on how far you view them)...just no pines. They are not exclusive.

That said, I think you know what we are referring to as "pine style". The styles you enumerate are the accepted norm and as I said...are Japanese influenced. They are all great but not representative of some tree styles growing in other regions. Branch structure is different and I think is what Walter Pall has been advocating for years now.