Korean Hornbeam

tmmason10 · Nov 23, 2013

JudyB said:
Good job Tom, it is looking very good in the pics, if it's better in person it must be a stunner. It's come a ways since you got it, those classes are paying off for sure. I like your pot choice.

Thanks Judy, I really appreciate the comment. My wiring still has a long way to go but it is getting better. I think the difference with this one is I bought better starting material so styling it was easier. I was actually thinking of your hornbeam and hackberry while wiring it.

AboveBeyond · Nov 23, 2013

tmmason10 said:
Well tonight I decided to do some fall work on this tree. I stripped the leaves, pruned back the extensions, and added a few pieces of wire. It looks better in person than the photos, I'm quite happy with it.

View attachment 44653

View attachment 44654

I really like the first pic.

tmmason10 · Nov 30, 2013

At class today, we discussed this tree and a possible angle change. Thoughts? I might have changed the angle too much in the pic.

JudyB · Nov 30, 2013

I like it better less upright, like it is now, as opposed to the straighter angle. Standing it more upright, takes away the great creepy feel the tree currently gives me. Just my opinion though...

tmmason10 · Nov 30, 2013

JudyB said:
I like it better less upright, like it is now, as opposed to the straighter angle. Standing it more upright, takes away the great creepy feel the tree currently gives me. Just my opinion though...

Thanks for the input Judy I appreciate it. I'm happy with the tree and we will see what it wants to do in the next few years.

John said "you'll have a nice tree in 5-10 years". And this is one of my furthest along trees!

tmmason10 · Jan 23, 2014

Bored lately without haven't my trees to look at in person. Think I can have a good image in 3 seasons?

CHUCHIN · Jan 23, 2014

tmmason10 said:
I thought I'd start a thread on my new Korean Hornbeam that I plan on developing this year. I love this tree, and can't wait to see it progress. I was going to repot this year but I'm not sure that I will in order to let it just grow wild. I need a bud or two to pop on the right side of the apex, or John and I are thinking that a thread graft may be in order. Anyways, here's the best picture I have and let me know what you think.

View attachment 31202

Carpinus in general are my favorite species of trees to work with...With that said I would not recommend grafting... They dont quite work like maples, elms, blacks even whites... Heavy scaring, slow pace to callus...It can just be real messy.

If you dont mind me saying but I see a new leader with that being the secondary branch to the right with the red tape on it..Id use that as a new leader and zip everything to the left...You can than build your display (primary, secondary and new apex from the new leader).

The advantage to this options are two things:

1. Improved taper...As you can see by my screename I go by CHUCHIN well the tree will be a super CHUCHIN if you do that with great transition from base to Apex...

2. Branches as they are now seem to want to go up...not alot but enough where its throwing off the symetry of the tree(Say that 3 times)...Especially the branch I am suggesting be your new leader...Since it wants to go up anyway dont fight it make it go up and follow where the tree takes you....

Walter Paul and Naka if he were here would tell you make a bonsai into a tree not a tree into a bonsai(im sure I got that wrong lol)

Great tree though

James (CHUCHIN)

tmmason10 · Jan 23, 2014

CHUCHIN said:
Carpinus in general are my favorite species of trees to work with...With that said I would not recommend grafting... They dont quite work like maples, elms, blacks even whites... Heavy scaring, slow pace to callus...It can just be real messy.

If you dont mind me saying but I see a new leader with that being the secondary branch to the right with the red tape on it..Id use that as a new leader and zip everything to the left...You can than build your display (primary, secondary and new apex from the new leader).

The advantage to this options are two things:

1. Improved taper...As you can see by my screename I go by CHUCHIN well the tree will be a super CHUCHIN if you do that with great transition from base to Apex...

2. Branches as they are now seem to want to go up...not alot but enough where its throwing off the symetry of the tree(Say that 3 times)...Especially the branch I am suggesting be your new leader...Since it wants to go up anyway dont fight it make it go up and follow where the tree takes you....

Walter Paul and Naka if he were here would tell you make a bonsai into a tree not a tree into a bonsai(im sure I got that wrong lol)

Great tree though

James (CHUCHIN)

Hi James,

Thanks for your comment, chopping into a shohin or chub in is definitely an option I have been considering. I'm having a hard time getting myself to do that however. I will look at your suggestion a little more closely however.

discusmike · Jan 23, 2014

I had branch issues on mine,heavier branches don't backbud well from my experience, I chopped mine and it regrew with ferocity, ended up with many branches, I cut back to a branch.Very nice tree.

aphid · Feb 3, 2014

CHUCHIN said:
Carpinus in general are my favorite species of trees to work with...With that said I would not recommend grafting... They dont quite work like maples, elms, blacks even whites... Heavy scaring, slow pace to callus...It can just be real messy.

If you dont mind me saying but I see a new leader with that being the secondary branch to the right with the red tape on it..Id use that as a new leader and zip everything to the left...You can than build your display (primary, secondary and new apex from the new leader).

The advantage to this options are two things:

1. Improved taper...As you can see by my screename I go by CHUCHIN well the tree will be a super CHUCHIN if you do that with great transition from base to Apex...

2. Branches as they are now seem to want to go up...not alot but enough where its throwing off the symetry of the tree(Say that 3 times)...Especially the branch I am suggesting be your new leader...Since it wants to go up anyway dont fight it make it go up and follow where the tree takes you....

Walter Paul and Naka if he were here would tell you make a bonsai into a tree not a tree into a bonsai(im sure I got that wrong lol)

Great tree though

James (CHUCHIN)

Very beautiful base. I see it going to the left with a new lead instead of going up as well. That sounds like a very long time though. I don't know how vigorous the tree is, but mine is super slow growing. Do old Korean hornbeams grow faster when planted in the ground?

tmmason10 · Feb 4, 2014

aphid said:
Very beautiful base. I see it going to the left with a new lead instead of going up as well. That sounds like a very long time though. I don't know how vigorous the tree is, but mine is super slow growing. Do old Korean hornbeams grow faster when planted in the ground?

I don't think I got any girth last year, an all I've heard is that they are slow to bulk up. That's the main reason I'm trying the tree as is; to see what I could do without setting myself back too far. It may be inevitable though.

tmmason10 · Mar 21, 2014

Rob echoed chuchins thoughts at our meeting in February about chopping to the first branch, and possibly tilting to the side to make the taper hangs less dramatic. At the very least I think I need to shorten the apex and make a twin trunk shohin. Made a quick outline of what I am thinking. Thoughts? When I get the tree back from overwintering I will take picks of the possible new front.

october · Mar 21, 2014

Yes, the more the tree was rotated, the smoother the transition appeared. To the point where it looked completely natural. The only down side is you will lose some of the girth of the base since the side would become the new front. Basically it comes down to having a really wide base with the rest of the tree being mediocre or have a smaller base where the entire tree looks nice and natural.

Rob

tmmason10 · Mar 21, 2014

october said:
Yes, the more the tree was rotated, the smoother the transition appeared. To the point where it looked completely natural. The only down side is you will lose some of the girth of the base since the side would become the new front. Basically it comes down to having a really wide base with the rest of the tree being mediocre or have a smaller base where the entire tree looks nice and natural.

Rob

I agree Rob, I think we will have to assess at our next meeting.

october · Mar 21, 2014

Personally, if it is not a drastic loss of girth and reverse taper is not an issue, I usually lean towards an overall better looking image. Of course, if time can correct the mediocre image, that is a different story. In this case, I might lean towards the side view and slight loss of base size.

Rob

amkhalid · Mar 21, 2014

I've been working on a KoHo since 2007 (I actually bought it from Chuchin, a member of this forum).

My experience is they backbud, but not as reliably as say, a maple. Especially on old wood.

So I've done lots of thread grafting to save time and make sure the branches will be where I want them to be. In the pic below there is a thread graft in progress plus the next two on the right are older thread grafts.

Your tree has excellent potential. The main issue I see is there is a disconnect between the lovely taper of the older trunk, and the tall apex. If it were my tree, I would reduce that long taperless apex quite dramatically. Probably by 75% or so. I think in the virtual you showed, the apex reduction is not enough. I would definitely cut back to an existing bud to be safe. Then thread graft if necessary. If there is no existing bud where you want it, thread graft first then cut back later. They can be threadgrafted both prior to bud break and in the early summer using a defoliated branch.

Compacting your tree is a long term project but I think it is worth the effort. My tree is undergoing a similar procedure. Here we are seven years in, and still a long way to go. But its been fun.

Best of luck, and take everything I am suggesting with a grain of salt. Enjoy your tree.

tmmason10 · Mar 21, 2014

amkhalid said:
I've been working on a KoHo since 2007 (I actually bought it from Chuchin, a member of this forum).

My experience is they backbud, but not as reliably as say, a maple. Especially on old wood.

So I've done lots of thread grafting to save time and make sure the branches will be where I want them to be. In the pic below there is a thread graft in progress plus the next two on the right are older thread grafts.

Your tree has excellent potential. The main issue I see is there is a disconnect between the lovely taper of the older trunk, and the tall apex. If it were my tree, I would reduce that long taperless apex quite dramatically. Probably by 75% or so. I think in the virtual you showed, the apex reduction is not enough. I would definitely cut back to an existing bud to be safe. Then thread graft if necessary. If there is no existing bud where you want it, thread graft first then cut back later. They can be threadgrafted both prior to bud break and in the early summer using a defoliated branch.

Compacting your tree is a long term project but I think it is worth the effort. My tree is undergoing a similar procedure. Here we are seven years in, and still a long way to go. But its been fun.

Best of luck, and take everything I am suggesting with a grain of salt. Enjoy your tree.

Thanks for sharing your tree and thoughts. I will certainly be addressing this tree this spring to set it on the right path. I should say that my virt today was for a future canopy, I think your right about the amount of reduction that would need to take place in the long thin trunk. I could definitely see Robs suggestion being the other option but will definitely assess next meeting.

CHUCHIN · Mar 21, 2014

amkhalid said:
I've been working on a KoHo since 2007 (I actually bought it from Chuchin, a member of this forum).

My experience is they backbud, but not as reliably as say, a maple. Especially on old wood.

So I've done lots of thread grafting to save time and make sure the branches will be where I want them to be. In the pic below there is a thread graft in progress plus the next two on the right are older thread grafts.

Your tree has excellent potential. The main issue I see is there is a disconnect between the lovely taper of the older trunk, and the tall apex. If it were my tree, I would reduce that long taperless apex quite dramatically. Probably by 75% or so. I think in the virtual you showed, the apex reduction is not enough. I would definitely cut back to an existing bud to be safe. Then thread graft if necessary. If there is no existing bud where you want it, thread graft first then cut back later. They can be threadgrafted both prior to bud break and in the early summer using a defoliated branch.

Compacting your tree is a long term project but I think it is worth the effort. My tree is undergoing a similar procedure. Here we are seven years in, and still a long way to go. But its been fun.

Best of luck, and take everything I am suggesting with a grain of salt. Enjoy your tree.

Oh how nice to see an old friend. I remember us working through this deal. I appreciate you posting and seeing it again...I can't believe it was almost 10 years ago. Good stuff.

tmmason10 · Apr 19, 2014

This hornbeam is just starting to stir and had some flowers when I picked it up. I decided to chop back the leader, but not all the way (sorry Rob!) as I am still unsure if I want to chop all hte way to that one branch. I've included a view of the possible new front.

JudyB · Apr 20, 2014

I still really dig this tree. It has so much to offer, I'm glad you have it. I would think on putting it into a larger pot to let it grow as much as it can during your growing season, it'll make the timeframe a bit shorter possibly.

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