Ground growing
- Thread starter Brian Van Fleet
- Start date
Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
Very nice Shimpaku you got there Brian! 
Can't wait to see you style it.
Can't wait to see you style it.
Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
This is what I would do in my case ones the trunk is at least 6cm. It is going in the ground now. It is important when using this method to manipulate the hight of the sacrifice branches to reduse/increase their vigor, so they are in ballance in relation to the rest of the branches.
Lowering a branch will reduce its vigor...and putting it up/higher will increase the vigor. So You play around to make some branches grow more or less.
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This is how the wedge method works...You carve the blue part ones the trunk has reached the desired thickness, and let it grow so the red line heals.
Remember to protect the branch being separated (tie on a stake or guy wire to the main tree if possible). You do not want it breaking and peeling off the lower bark of the tree!
Neli
Omono
With roots you can use also that Van...something ???? technique...to create taper.
Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Thanks, it is a good one. Bjorn will be here in a couple weeks, and while I know where I'm taking the design after looking at it for 2 years, I will probably work on it when he's here. It's healthy and registered no complaints after last fall's major branch removal.Very nice Shimpaku you got there Brian!
Though, looking at the trunk, I can see where the live vein is...and isn't (second photo). The original plan was to run a Shari on the trunk, parallel to and between the jinned branches, and run it around the back, under the first left branch. To do that would have required the front of the trunk to be alive to feed the first left branch, as it would have been girdled from below. You can see where the trunk has withered under the upper Shari, so I'll have to change courses a little, and probably extend the upper Shari downward, and keep the live vein below. Probably end up looking a little less contrived this way.
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drew33998
Masterpiece
Not to hijack this thread, but I have a JM that has the same "straight problems". I have been toying with the idea of chopping it low or air layering half of it off to work on the "wiggle". It didn't do too well this year because it was severly root bound and it lost all its leaves at one point in the summer so I slip potted it in the container you now see. I just repotted it working the roots out and buried it deeper to work on the nebari. Just trying to figure out if I should chop it or just let it grow and see what I think at the end of this growing season.
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fore
Omono
I have a lg elm and trident in the ground for last 2 yrs. Only really started growing the second yr though. When it thaws here...WHEN???....I'm going to dig them up, work the roots, and do a big trunk chop like Brian has mentioned here. I agree also with Brian and others who noted that the better D. trees have good movement in the first section of trunk. So I'll be also working on this issue. I think I may put over wood/plate/something to keep the roots close to the tree.
Informative thread!
Informative thread!
Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
So are all the formal upright tidents and maples with massive, straight trunks now considered garbage?
Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
small trees
Chumono
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I think the statement is in reference to informal upright or other similar styles where the first movement in the trunk is several inches high, which isn't really indicative of what you would find in most trees of this kind in nature. The lower the movement starts for an informal, the better.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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No...they Are formal uprights and by definition have straight trunks
Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
I guess Grimlore is the only one that got the sarcasm.
I wasnt asking out of ignorance or confusion over the style of tree.
I was challenging the statement that "all the 'better' trees have good movement low in the trunk".
I wasnt asking out of ignorance or confusion over the style of tree.
I was challenging the statement that "all the 'better' trees have good movement low in the trunk".
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
The intent was to state that the better trees with movement, have movement or interest right from the base, and are not straight for the lower half, and then start bending.
Additionally, to state my observation that the longer I grow trees in the ground, the more I find that I'm happier with those I created with shorter trunk sections with each cut.
Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
Thank you for stating the clarification. I didnt want people reading this otherwise informative thread and coming to the wrong conclusion regarding styles.
Lazylightningny
Masterpiece
Great thread. I have a maple i've been growing in the ground for several years from a seedling, and I'm ready to make its first chop this year. I will consider chopping it shorter than I first thought.
iant
Chumono
Nice projects Brian!
Someone brought up wedge removal earlier in this thread so I wanted to post another example of a wedge method branch removal. I know it's a little off topic as this tree is not in the ground but in a flat with escape to a flat below it. I took off the bottom halves of two of the branches to encourage flow around the wound and get the bottom of the wound to heal first. I'll remove the top half next spring
Ian
Someone brought up wedge removal earlier in this thread so I wanted to post another example of a wedge method branch removal. I know it's a little off topic as this tree is not in the ground but in a flat with escape to a flat below it. I took off the bottom halves of two of the branches to encourage flow around the wound and get the bottom of the wound to heal first. I'll remove the top half next spring
Ian
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Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
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iant,
That is not the recommended way. The V should be at the top, not the bottom.
The reason is by cutting the bottom, the section of trunk directly below the cut has no reason to live. It USED to feed the branch, but you have cut the sap line. You may very well lose that section of trunk directly below the cut, including the roots. I'm not saying you WILL but there's a good chance of it.
By cutting down from the top only, the trunk section still feeds the sacrifice branch. And the healing process creates a new flow up around the cut. This keeps the lower trunk section alive, and the roots strong.
I learned the V cut method from Boon.
Hopefully, your tree will do just fine. The safer way is to V notch from above.
That is not the recommended way. The V should be at the top, not the bottom.
The reason is by cutting the bottom, the section of trunk directly below the cut has no reason to live. It USED to feed the branch, but you have cut the sap line. You may very well lose that section of trunk directly below the cut, including the roots. I'm not saying you WILL but there's a good chance of it.
By cutting down from the top only, the trunk section still feeds the sacrifice branch. And the healing process creates a new flow up around the cut. This keeps the lower trunk section alive, and the roots strong.
I learned the V cut method from Boon.
Hopefully, your tree will do just fine. The safer way is to V notch from above.
quietobserver
Omono
Same suggestion, said a different way. About halfway down the page, "how to make the cuts".
http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/trunks.htm
