Cedar elm survives

Txhorticulture · Aug 24, 2014

The cedar elm i dug, a month ago more or less, has managed to survive i think. It's not much to look at yet, but all the new growth is encouraging. Since a tree this size managed to survive a mid summer dig, i think I'll get a larger one this winter or spring.

I've also spotted a substantial mustang grape and may get some cultivated grape vines from a winery. I'm also scouting some sites looking for a native juniper (J. Ashei)

KayaMooney · Aug 24, 2014

Will that new growth have time to harden off before the tree goes dormant though?

Txhorticulture · Aug 24, 2014

Good question

That's an interesting question. We will see. We don't get much in the way of cool weather until late October or early November. Temperate plants here are almost evergreen. The dominant oak species is technically evergreen discarding old leaves as new ones appear in late February or early march. My japanese maples color in late December early January. I think my climate is a little bit "warm temperate" but most often described as "subtropical". There is just enough winter for temperate plants.

But your point is a good one i probably should protect it if we get an early, substantial cold front. Thanks. I had not considered it yet.

jkd2572 · Aug 24, 2014

Keep this guy in the shade with your maples this time of year. Cedar elm leaves will burn fast. I can't believe they are native to us. We have three more months of growing season. They will harden off and be fine.

sorce · Aug 24, 2014

Hell yeah Tex.

Got er did.

I have new growth pushing on my elms now. They should harden off in time up here. You should be fine.

Sorce

markyscott · Aug 25, 2014

jkd2572 said:
Keep this guy in the shade with your maples this time of year. Cedar elm leaves will burn fast. I can't believe they are native to us. We have three more months of growing season. They will harden off and be fine.

That's interesting. I keep mine in as much sun as I can (filtered morning and evening light and about 8 hours of direct afternoon sun) and I've not observed any leaf burn. Here are some pictures of one of my cedar elms - I'm rebuilding the branch structure. But there is no leaf burn - I've had strong growth all summer. Those wings are on this seasons growth.

Maybe humidity difference? Or because it's a bit cooler here than in Dallas (cool meaning daytime highs around 100)? Something else? I'm really curious - you have a lot of experience growing these - what do you think the difference is? I know Howard and Sylvia grow a lot of Cedar Elm - I'll have to ask them if they've shared you problems with sun exposure.

Scott

jkd2572 · Aug 25, 2014

I have never seen cedar elm at their house. I do know they even shade the black pines this time of year. I only have one cedar elm. so I'm not that experienced. Your looks like the wing variety. Maybe it's different. This is my first summer with mine. I do know that once I put it in the shade the new growth did not burn. All of the landscape nurseries around my house that have them in full sun are burnt to a crisp right now. Seeing that is what made me feel as though it was not a fungal problem, but sun burn.

Txhorticulture · Aug 25, 2014

Winged elm

I've never known cedar elm to burn either.

Cedar elm can and does sometimes grow corky wings like that. But that plant may be winged elm, ulmus alata.

Txhorticulture · Aug 25, 2014

Chinese hybrid

Since we are in the cedar elm subject, i thought it might interest some to know that Chinese elm, ulmus parvifolia, will readily hybridize with cedar elm.

I thought since both are common bonsai subjects someone might find that intriguing. Also, the hybrid progeny is highly resistant to Dutch elm...

jkd2572 · Aug 25, 2014

Winged elm are a different tree. I would love to here from other people with cedar elm in hot climates. My Chinese elm do not burn.

Txhorticulture · Aug 25, 2014

jkd2572 said:
Winged elm are a different tree. I would love to here from other people with cedar elm in hot climates. My Chinese elm do not burn.

Yes, I know. But both can be found around Houston i think ... I was suggesting maybe that his tree was winged elm not cedar elm. The leaves look large, but fertilizer sometimes has that effect.

markyscott · Aug 25, 2014

I have to admit I find the elms that grow in east Texas quite difficult to tell apart. American Elm, Winged Elm, and Cedar Elm all grow in this area and I've been told they hybridize readily. I've even found what I think are chinese elms growing wild by the bayou. It seems like every elm I see has a bit different bark character and habit. I have several trees I've always called Cedar Elm, based on the rough feel on the bottom of the leaves. On strong growth they all tend to produce cork, but admitedly some more readily than others. Are the good corkers winged elms or some other variety hybridized with winged elms? I'm not sure.

If it helps, I'll photograph some other elms without leaf burn tomorrow.

Scott

markyscott · Aug 25, 2014

Txhorticulture said:
Yes, I know. But both can be found around Houston i think ... I was suggesting maybe that his tree was winged elm not cedar elm. The leaves look large, but fertilizer sometimes has that effect.

They've been smaller in the past, but I'm starting over with the branch structure. Most of the branches were cut back hard in late winter in order to force interior growth. I fertilized heavily all spring - the leaves are easily 2-3 times as large as they were last season.

It may indeed be a winged elm.

- Scott

Poink88 · Aug 26, 2014

As mentioned, cedar elm hybrids so it is very hard to say what you will get. I have various types; winged & not, rough corky bark & armor plate type, fast grower & slow, big leaves & small, etc.

NONE have burned leaves though. Mine take full sun but most slows down a lot during peak summer and prefer partial shade (at that time) for optimal growth.

The problem I have is that I noticed that the ones that get shade are attacked by spider mites more for some reason.

Txhorticulture · Aug 26, 2014

hybrid

elms can and do hybridize, but cedar elm is fall flowering so i would expect it to only hybridize with another fall flowering elm, like chinese elm. i think winged elm flowers in spring. (that by the way would be a good way to know if you have a winged elm or cedar elm, assuming yours makes seeds)

markyscott · Aug 26, 2014

Txhorticulture said:
elms can and do hybridize, but cedar elm is fall flowering so i would expect it to only hybridize with another fall flowering elm, like chinese elm. i think winged elm flowers in spring. (that by the way would be a good way to know if you have a winged elm or cedar elm, assuming yours makes seeds)

That I did not know. Thanks. I'm not sure I've ever seen any of my elms flower in bonsai culture.

Scott

Chuah · Aug 28, 2014

Scott,
That looks like a wing elm. Mine is in full sun, no leaf burn.
Hoe

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