Need help to understand this ...

source · Sep 29, 2014

Need help to understand this (pic attached) ...

Hi guys

I am developing a Japanese Maple from nursery stock and I came across this comment from a website online:

Some Maples, such as Trident and Japanese Maples often send new shoots from the base of their branches. Ensure you remove these, before they kill the tree.

I've just started developing the main branches, last year was the initial trunk chop. I've noticed I do have some branches where there will be the main branch, and two secondary branches come from the base of the branch (one on each side), right by the trunk. I was planning on leaving these as they will give me more ramification (towards the top of the tree where the canopy develops).

Is this somehow harmful the tree, if I leave these branches that come out the base of the main branch?

Thanks for any responses

Here is a pic attached to help clarify: (red circle depicting what I am talking about, with the two branches coming from the base of the main branch)

-Daniel

FrankP999 · Sep 29, 2014

Kill the tree? Never heard of a branch killing a tree. I would worry about inverse taper before branches like those killing it.

raydomz · Sep 29, 2014

The wording of the quote is a little strong. These branches will certainly never 'kill' the tree.
What they will do, and this is the reason for removing them if they get too large, is create a thick base or knob where all of those branches come together.
Generally even toward the top of the tree I still follow the principal that there are individual branches with smaller secondary and tertiary(re: ramification) that make up the canopy.
You can by all means leave these suckers there but it won't take much time with j. maple to see the negative effects of this.

Brian Van Fleet · Sep 29, 2014

The quote is generally false, and specifically wrong in this context...the joys of sorting out Internet trash from treasure. It's always best to evaluate the quality of an artist's trees to help determine if you want to learn what they have to offer.

Regarding your tree; maples bud from nodes, or collars where buds/leaves were before. In young branches, those collars are visible rings. Multiple buds emerge there, and it's best to reduce those shoots from 2-3 down to 1 when they're just big enough to know if they're viable. Here is a sketch showing where I'd prune excess shoots at the yellow hash marks, and branches I'd use marked with green arrows.

If you're in the Northern hemisphere, I'd let the growth harden off, and when leaves fall over the next month or two, do the pruning, and shape the remaining branches with wire. If it's spring where you are, I'd make the cuts now and force the tree to direct energy into the shoots you're keeping.

Also, if you have knob cutters or a rotary tool, carefully and lightly scallop the 3 pruning scars on the lower trunk so they'll heal evenly without bulging scars. I use cut paste as well to keep the cambium rolling.

source · Sep 29, 2014

Brian Van Fleet said:
The quote is generally false, and specifically wrong in this context...the joys of sorting out Internet trash from treasure. It's always best to evaluate the quality of an artist's trees to help determine if you want to learn what they have to offer.

Regarding your tree; maples bud from nodes, or collars where buds/leaves were before. In young branches, those collars are visible rings. Multiple buds emerge there, and it's best to reduce those shoots from 2-3 down to 1 when they're just big enough to know if they're viable. Here is a sketch showing where I'd prune excess shoots at the yellow hash marks, and branches I'd use marked with green arrows.

If you're in the Northern hemisphere, I'd let the growth harden off, and when leaves fall over the next month or two, do the pruning, and shape the remaining branches with wire. If it's spring where you are, I'd make the cuts now and force the tree to direct energy into the shoots you're keeping.

Also, if you have knob cutters or a rotary tool, carefully and lightly scallop the 3 pruning scars on the lower trunk so they'll heal evenly without bulging scars. I use cut paste as well to keep the cambium rolling.

Thanks for the advise. My main reason for keeping those branches was a concern that I will not get enough branches to use in the following seasons to create a tree with lush foliage.

Should I be concerned about this or is it likely I will still get sufficient back-budding to have more branches?

jk_lewis · Sep 29, 2014

Strong wording or not, I'd remove the sprouts that pop out around the base of any branch. They're ugly and especially so when the tree is leafless (the time when many maples are at their most attractiveness.) And, as other have said, they do cause bumps.

source · Sep 29, 2014

Strong wording or not, I'd remove the sprouts that pop out around the base of any branch. They're ugly and especially so when the tree is leafless (the time when many maples are at their most attractiveness.) And, as other have said, they do cause bumps.

Thanks guys, I've done a ton of research, but since this is my first tree, still learning a lot.

So can I just ask, it is likely I will still get more branches to bud along the trunk (that upper section above the main trunk chop wound) after I trunk chop the new leader next season or as I prune back hard during winter etc. I ideally want to create a naturalistic style tree with a fairly dense canopy, which I know is largely the result of ramification, but I think I need a few more main branches...

P.S. It is the beginning of Spring my side.

jk_lewis · Sep 29, 2014

source said:
Thanks guys, I've done a ton of research, but since this is my first tree, still learning a lot.

So can I just ask, it is likely I will still get more branches to bud along the trunk (that upper section above the main trunk chop wound) after I trunk chop the new leader next season or as I prune back hard during winter etc. I ideally want to create a naturalistic style tree with a fairly dense canopy, which I know is largely the result of ramification, but I think I need a few more main branches...

You should get a number of sprouts around the site of the cut and below it. You certainly don't want too many main branches up there. Ramification deals with the secondary and teritary branches, and comes with pinching and fine pruning of the top when the tree is more mature as a bonsai than yours will be for a while. I suggest you look for the book, Bonsai With Japanese Maples by Peter Adams.

P.S. It is the beginning of Spring my side.

I suggest you amend your profile to always remind us where you live. Most of us don't walk around standing on our heads

and for us fall is here and winter (UGH) is approaching.

Have fun with your little tree. And, if this is the only one you have, GET ANOTHER. Otherwise you are in danger of fussing this one to death.

JudyB · Sep 29, 2014

If you could update your profile to reflect where you live in the world, then better timed advice can be given without having to ask you for that information first.

My experience with maples, is that they readily push new buds when cut back as long as they are healthy to begin with. If they are not healthy, then it's best to wait till they are vigorous, then do the cutbacks. The resulting growth will surely give you a full canopy. But I would remove those suckers at the base of the branches now.

source · Sep 29, 2014

Thanks

I have 10 trees which I'm developing. Ye I will be careful not to 'fuss' too much, pretty much just letting it grow out this season without doing much pruning. In winter will prune back hard to start developing some taper in the branches and start with the ramification.

P.S. Profile should be changed just now.

Brian Van Fleet · Sep 29, 2014

Since it is spring for you, I'd remove the extra shoots as I showed you earlier, then prune the remaining shoots back to the first pair of leaves. This will force the remaining shoots to ramify closer to the trunk. Let them grow for a few months to thicken.

An additional suggestion is to leave a lower shoot on the back of the tree and allow it to grow freely all year, so you can later thread-graft it through the trunk next year, in case you need a branch somewhere and don't get one.

source · Sep 29, 2014

Brian Van Fleet said:
Since it is spring for you, I'd remove the extra shoots as I showed you earlier, then prune the remaining shoots back to the first pair of leaves. This will force the remaining shoots to ramify closer to the trunk. Let them grow for a few months to thicken.

An additional suggestion is to leave a lower shoot on the back of the tree and allow it to grow freely all year, so you can later thread-graft it through the trunk next year, in case you need a branch somewhere and don't get one.

Thanks Brian. I definitely will be getting rid of the extra shoots growing from the base when I get home. I have pruned some of the top branches to one pair of leaves already, in tandem with what you're saying. I'll look at pruning the middle and low branches back as well.

Thanks for the tip on the threadgraft and thanks to everyone for the swift and helpful advise, it really has helped clarify things.

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