japanese white pine Longus armus

I saw this tree about two years ago, just a glimpse and was intrigued, but it wasn't for sale. Fast forward to now and the tree popped up. A rushed decision and a good deal later she came home with me.
I haven't spent much time looking at it yet but the branching directions will look to be challenging when trying to design. I'll study some more and try to sketch a design to get started. Ideally I'd like to use that long branch, but we will see what can make for the best tree.

Thoughts comments appreciated.

Looks healthy... But a very odd shape to be sure. If you want to keep that branch, prolly need to think of a cascade...

I think this is more of a tree with a thickening base and a couple sacrifice branches... That need to be removed, and new branches developed to create the final style. Looks to me like you best tree doesn't exist yea, and this is a clear case of "buy the tree for the roots and trunk because most the foliage will have to be removed..." JMHO.

I could see some progressive reductions, hope for black budding closer to the trunk to find something to work with, or graft something farther up the branches... Then create a in little informal upright, Jin out the stubs of the sacrifices and rebuild the tree from scratch... Will Prolly take a long time, but that is the expectation unless you are buying really great/ usually expensive stock!!

Or look at that cascade route, but the curve isn't dramatic enough to look rightIMO and the branch itself looks pretty straight an uninteresting as well.... It will take some drastic leaning and bending to get anything really nice out of the branches you have! I don't see a good windswept here... Not sure where lose you could go with that long branch!

Again, just my opinion- not knocking your tree or taste! Looks like a VERY healthy tree and I am sure you will make the best decision... Always hard to to tell from a 2D image what might be workable from a piece of stock! Good luck, and please keep us posted!

Where did you get it? From a nursery or a friend?

thats a cool tree with tons of potential. Congrats. Look forward to see what is done with it.

Nice find NY. Looks like a Dan special?

I will be interested in seeing what you do with it.

The tree was from my club auction. So I think although challenging, the fact that it supports us and was a good deal just made me have to go for it. I really only wanted pots I tell ya!

Eric, thanks for the input, much appreciated. Truthfully echoing some thoughts in my head and likely the most sensible. I don't want to give up on that long arm yet, but ultimately will if needed.

Precedent

Here is a little inspiration for you.

Bunjeh said:

Here is a little inspiration for you.

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Yeah, you could always do THIS... LOL

Nice NY!

Pots schmots!

I love a white pine cascade, I think you can pull it off!

Lovely material.

Sorce

Bunjeh said:

Here is a little inspiration for you.

Click to expand...

This tree def came to mind when loooking at mine.

This is interesting material...young and undeveloped but unusually shaped. I do see a cascade in there, but can't be sure that's the way to go. Honestly, this one has many years of development ahead of it....which is great because you've got lots of time to play around with it. I figure you've got two general options here; either act on the vision you have right now for this tree and start styling it, or stare at it for a year or so. If this were mine, I might throw some raffia on that long branch and see if I could get some good bends in it now (look at some nice cascades first and see how the cascading branch can fall and interact with the pot...it may give you some direction...or check out some of Naka's drawings- good inspiration there, too). I might start wiring the upper canopy, too, but I'd only remove branches that are absolutely not needed. I think you're going to have a lot of fun with this one for a long time. Good luck.

Dav4 said:

This is interesting material...young and undeveloped but unusually shaped. I do see a cascade in there, but can't be sure that's the way to go. Honestly, this one has many years of development ahead of it....which is great because you've got lots of time to play around with it. I figure you've got to general options here; either act on the vision you have right now for this tree and start styling it, or stare at it for a year or so. If this were mine, I might throw some raffia on that long branch and see if I could get some good bends in it now (look at some nice cascades first and see how the cascading branch can fall and interact with the pot...it may give you some direction...or check out some of Naka's drawings- good inspiration there, too). I might start wiring the upper canopy, too, but I'd only remove branches that are absolutely not needed. I think you're going to have a lot of fun with this one for a long time. Good luck.

Click to expand...

Thanks dave. I already have books out to flip through to view cascades. I may end up leaving the top alone entirely now to see if i can get the desired movement into the long arm. if it doesn't work out at least i will not have removed anything from the top.

I haven't really checked the pliability of the long arm yet. if I can raffia and bend that would be great. If not as pliable as I hope, i suppose I could cut out a small notch where needed and bend, but I think i would only be able to do that one section at a time.

If it wee mine I'd get rid of everything in the blue circle.

That's a cool tree. I would have grabbed it too. You could use that long branch as a sacrifice branch to thicken the trunk and style the rest. I would love to get my hand on a JWP but there's nothing in my area that carries them and no bonsai nurseries that are close.

jkl said:

If it wee mine I'd get rid of everything in the blue circle.

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Then what?

Keeping it allows the base to thicken, or offers the option of raffia, wiring, and twisting it up into an interesting trunk over the course of a couple years.

Removing it takes away a salient unique feature as a design element, and reduces its ability to thicken the trunk as a sacrifice branch.

Giga said:

That's a cool tree. I would have grabbed it too. You could use that long branch as a sacrifice branch to thicken the trunk and style the rest. I would love to get my hand on a JWP but there's nothing in my area that carries them and no bonsai nurseries that are close.

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Nurseries typically don't carry JWP by me either. Everything is mugo, EWP or thunderhead black pine. The only time i saw one in a garden center it was $150.00 and the size of a mugo you could get a home depot.

If you are looking for JWP and are willing to buy based off pics, check out New England Bonsai gardens. they have a decent amount of JWP grafted onto JBP roots. they have more finished material, but aren't cheap.

I have a few JWP and with the exception of one, all were pre-bonsai bought for cheap that will need to be developed over time. It's nice to have pretty trees in pots, but i'll enjoy the journey trying to get this one and the others to that state.

Nybonsai12 said:

Nurseries typically don't carry JWP by me either. Everything is mugo, EWP or thunderhead black pine. The only time i saw one in a garden center it was $150.00 and the size of a mugo you could get a home depot.

If you are looking for JWP and are willing to buy based off pics, check out New England Bonsai gardens. they have a decent amount of JWP grafted onto JBP roots. they have more finished material, but aren't cheap.

I have a few JWP and with the exception of one, all were pre-bonsai bought for cheap that will need to be developed over time. It's nice to have pretty trees in pots, but i'll enjoy the journey trying to get this one and the others to that state.

Click to expand...

bonsai spending for me is always in short supply so I don't think I could afford some "finished" material. I do like a getting cheaper material and developing it as well, has more to it for me because you put the blood/sweat/time into it to make it something you could be proud of.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to put some bends into that long branch and develop it while developing the branches closer to the lower trunk? You could add movement while you're undecided on what way to design the tree.

The long branch could serve as a sacrifice branch for the lower area, and lower branches could serve as sacrifice branches for the upper area. When the tree gives you hints on what design you should go with, you could let the sacrifice branches grow liberally and jin them later.

Brian Van Fleet said:

Keeping it allows the base to thicken, or offers the option of raffia, wiring, and twisting it up into an interesting trunk over the course of a couple years.

Click to expand...

Interesting, that long arm does appear to have a good amount of branching. So I understand right you mean use the long branch as the future main trunk line, but in upward style? As in a slant or more informal upright? Thx for the input.

Nybonsai12 said:

Interesting, that long arm does appear to have a good amount of branching. So I understand right you mean use the long branch as the future main trunk line, but in upward style? As in a slant or more informal upright? Thx for the input.

Click to expand...

I would consider using that long branch as the trunk. You could tilt it upright a bit, wrap it in raffia, and gently start introducing bends/compaction into the trunk with a couple stout wires, and maybe some rebar. It could develop some interesting trunk movement, with branches that have foliage close to the trunk and deliberately on the outside of curves.

I've been checking the tree out, it's going to be tough to bend that first section of the long arm down that is by the lip of the pot. It's thick, but further down the branch it's doable. I'm not sure I could pull it off without destroying the branch.

I am not set on a cascade at all but if not utilizing the long arm, the other arm on the other side is flexible and could be bent down for another cascade. The trunk would be coming out of the soil and then bent back over and down. I tried to make a virt but I'm crap with MS paint, you get the general idea. I think it would make it look better tapered, yes?


There is a low branch on the back. I've included a picture. Would allowing that tree to go unchecked be beneficial to the trunk growth? Or would it not make a difference at this stage?

Any thoughts/comments are appreciated. I'm just hesitant to commit to a design and start working on it. Probably a sign I should wait some more.