Trident Dug @ Muranaka's

coh · Feb 23, 2015

That's more growth than I would have expected (what happened to the tree, did the root system get out of control requiring ground layering - which failed?). I put a few tridents in the ground last spring and didn't get much growth - but it was a very cool summer. Now with this extremely harsh winter, it will be interesting to see how much damage they suffer. Fortunately the roots are buried under 2' of snow so they should be OK, not so sure about the exposed tops.

I've noticed that trees planted in the ground show a wide range of growth rates, both among different species but also among different individuals of the same species.

Dav4 · Feb 23, 2015

coh said:
That's more growth than I would have expected (what happened to the tree, did the root system get out of control requiring ground layering - which failed?). I put a few tridents in the ground last spring and didn't get much growth - but it was a very cool summer. Now with this extremely harsh winter, it will be interesting to see how much damage they suffer. Fortunately the roots are buried under 2' of snow so they should be OK, not so sure about the exposed tops.

I've noticed that trees planted in the ground show a wide range of growth rates, both among different species but also among different individuals of the same species.

Right, the trees never had the appropriate root work done while growing out. I dug them a year before heading south, then realized how crummy the roots were when I started working them as bonsai candidates. The ground layers failed miserably because the tree was too strong and kept bridging the layer (2" wide gap!). After 2 failed attempts, I decided to get more aggressive and turned them into cuttings again...literally

. Oh well. As far as your trees go, I bet there will be some die back, but I also bet they take off on you...and next year, stand back! Hopefully, you'll let us know.

0soyoung · Feb 23, 2015

Dav4 said:
Chop a maple and the tree will usually explode with growth.

Okay, I just don't consider an explosion of growth to be moving a tree forward artistically. Semantics, I guess.

Dav4 · Feb 23, 2015

0soyoung said:
Okay, I just don't consider an explosion of growth to be moving a tree forward artistically. Semantics, I guess.

Come on, you know what I'm saying. When I've layered maple trees low down, all the growth is in the upper portion of the tree because they're apically dominant...the lower portion doesn't grow nearly as much if at all. Cut away the top and the lower portion is going to grow more. More growth equals more development if it's channeled properly.

Dav4 · Feb 23, 2015

Fwiw, that maple stump I showed in the pictures above IS more developed and further along in it's journey to becoming a bonsai because of that rampant growth. If I had just layered it, there wouldn't be multiple leaders or primary branches to chose/wire and begin their development phase

coh · Feb 23, 2015

Matches my observations. Layering doesn't cut off the flow of nutrients up the tree, so the main growth will continue to be at the top. At the same time, though, provided there are already branches below the layer, you can still work on wiring them or whatever and continue "developing" that area. If your goal is rampant growth to create a new trunk segment or increase flare at the base, then that won't happen until the layer is removed.

ColinFraser · Feb 24, 2015

The deed is done. I cut down to the lowest live branch. I left a pretty good stump to be on the safe side, and I'll plan on carving/cutting that down at an angle later
Front-ish:

Side:

My question now is about the new leader: should it be trained up in any way? I made a similar chop on a Seiju Elm in another thread, and BVF recommended removing any wire from the new lead. I intend to let this grow wild this season, but it don't want to miss an opportunity if there's anything else I should do to it now.

Smoke · Feb 24, 2015

If this is the place you wish the chop to be then do not leave the stub. If this is a safety cut, (wishing for buds to pop lower on the trunk to chop to) then it is OK. If it were mine I would wait for lower buds and chop lower. If you like it now then cut the stub off at about 20 degree angle away and down from the shoot. The reason is that the tree will comparmentalize here and start to callus and you need the cleaned up edge for the callus to roll over. Cleaned up meaning after reducing to a nice angle, clean all the edges with a scalpal sharp type knife even a scalpal is good. Very smooth and a good green ring all the way around. Do not go past the profile or it will show a hollow. Keep it proud. Seal very well. Better than clay type cut paste which does not seal that well. Plain old rubber cement from the stationary store will work well and even has a brush in the bottle. Make sure the cement covers some bark and makes a good seal. The healing will happen under the rubber, don't worry about it.

Eric Group · Feb 24, 2015

Dav4 said:
It's just been my experience. I've performed many layers on maples and the base doesn't do much of anything that growing season. Chop a maple and the tree will usually explode with growth.

Don't you think this just has to do with where the tree is a ending the energy? When you are making your layer all the energy and hormones ares still flowing up to the top you are trying to layer off the tree, and none of the hormones for building roots or stimulating lower growth are getting back down the trunk... So the bottom slows while the top keeps living and (hopefully) developing roots...

Just seems natural... Meanwhile if you chop the top off your Maple it basically says "oh crap, I need a bunch a leaves to feed these damn roots" and spits out a profusion of rapidly growing branches! Kind of like how a Juniper when pruned back will spit out the fastest growth is can produce (juvenile growth).. Just a simplification of how I understand it...

sorce · Feb 25, 2015

Here's a guy who posts, learns, and applies!
A great gauge of seriousness!

Hats off!

Looking forward to more!

Sorce

ColinFraser · Nov 9, 2015

An update and a question.

The tree grew well this last season, after it powered through some early leaf-curling, and put on quite a few feet of growth as you can see:

It lost it's leaves a few weeks ago, and I assumed it was done for the year and ready for winter.
Now it's suddenly pushing some new buds on the trunk as well as a few leaves from the leader:

Nighttime lows hit the mid to low 40s last week, and I expect to start seeing the occasional high 30s just before dawn this week. Frost is a possibility by the end of the month and remains an option until about Feb.
Should I be worried about this? If so what are my options for intervention?

barrosinc · Nov 9, 2015

don't worry, the bud will likely die and that's about it...

ColinFraser · Nov 9, 2015

barrosinc said:
don't worry, the bud will likely die and that's about it...

My only problem with that is that I want to cut back to the buds on the trunk in spring. If these die, new ones might be better, worse, or not pop at all . . .
Edit:
Also, I count no fewer than 6 different spots where it's waking up and pushing growth. If the whole tree is coming out of dormancy, then just letting the new growth get nailed could be a major setback.

sorce · Nov 9, 2015

You know I'm down with you Colin.

But you better figure this out!

I'm starting to love my winters!

Hahahahahahahah!

For real, hope someone comes in with answers and such.

I'm more worried about no dormancy, than killing new growth.

My take. It gonna be that nice this year.
They felt the rain. They know.

You'll be fine!

Sorce

ColinFraser · Nov 9, 2015

By the way, I'm thinking that this tree may end up as the largest/feature tree in a forest I've been accumulating more tridents for:

sorce · Nov 9, 2015

Hell yeah!

Go Nuts!

Sorce

Stickroot · Nov 9, 2015

ColinFraser said:
By the way, I'm thinking that this tree may end up as the largest/feature tree in a forest I've been accumulating more tridents for:
View attachment 86342

Geez, does everyone go through this phase with Trident?

I have a great feature tree for you!

ColinFraser · Nov 9, 2015

Stickroot said:
Geez, does everyone go through this phase with Trident?

I have a great feature tree for you!View attachment 86345

Too interesting - I want sticks

Stickroot · Nov 9, 2015

ColinFraser said:
Too interesting - I want sticks

Well, your sticks may look like that in 15

Giga · Nov 9, 2015

I really really want a trident!

Trident Dug @ Muranaka's

Imperial Masterpiece

Drop Branch Murphy

Imperial Masterpiece

Drop Branch Murphy

Drop Branch Murphy

Imperial Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Ignore-Amus

Masterpiece

Nonsense Rascal

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Nonsense Rascal

Masterpiece

Nonsense Rascal

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Similar threads