Questions I never asked because they might make me look stupid

Joe, the problem with doing that with seedlings Is the leaf shape varies from tree to tree. You'll get a tree with all different shaped leaves.

Now, if you did it with rooted cuttings from the same mother tree, you'd be ok.

Regarding juniper, I think it's a great idea to try and fuse some cuttings together. Recently, I've been observing old twisty junipers and their deadwood. Their live vein and deadwood can be enigmatic, and I think it's sometimes due to some of the juniper's own twisty branches fusing with itself. Some branches look enveloped.

As for the azaleas, they can have variation of color on the same tree, but some people may add grafts on to "enhance" the tree. It's fair game, and it's even done on some Japanese flowering quince.

The live vein in junipers naturally spirals up the tree. Just the way they grow. Different junipers vary as to how much they spiral.

What I understand about the Azaleas is that the red and white flowering are not grafted. However; you have to be very careful that you do not let the red flowers take over or you lose the red and white character of the tree.

First, a bunch of the cuttings:

As you can see, a couple different varieties here. Mostly Shimpaku, some Regular Sergents.. they are so closely related I might try fusing a couple crossbreads because the regulars grow so much faster than Shimpaku..

The ones I decided to work with.. Small little cuttings, but damn the roots they made in a short amount of time!



Scraped the bark off where they will be joining:


Twisting and tying with rafia:





That was where my camera's battery died! Not much to look at right now. Potted them up in a little bulb pot, and I will let them grow this season. If they are looking good later this year I might go ahead and slip the root ball into the garden to leave it for a couple years.. if they are struggling I probably won't touch it again for a while.. some roots were removed as I separated the two cuttings, so they might not take off immediately. We will see what happens!

Nice Eric, should have made a new thread.

I was thinking about using much larger cuttings than those?

Raffia is a great idea to bind them, I just bought some Saturday. Can the raffia leave "wire marks" If left on too long like wire?

I was thinking of twisting them up like a barber pole around each other. This is assuming they won't break/damage.

That is true Adair. The issue is getting so many cuttings to take! Might hafta order them or find a nursery.

Yes, raffia wrapping can cause a mark if not removed.

JoeR said:

Nice Eric, should have made a new thread.

I was thinking about using much larger cuttings than those?

Raffia is a great idea to bind them, I just bought some Saturday. Can the raffia leave "wire marks" If left on too long like wire?

I was thinking of twisting them up like a barber pole around each other. This is assuming they won't break/damage.

That is true Adair. The issue is getting so many cuttings to take! Might hafta order them or find a nursery.

Click to expand...

Yes, I intend to use some larger ones as well, this was really just a trial run to get the plan down... Raffia CAN scar the bark as well, but much differently and when wrapped around almost the entire portion of exposed trunk pretty evenly.. It will basically compress the bark pretty even so that the scaring should be very minimal, and eventually it will rot away... By which time hopefully the cuttings will be sufficiently fused.. My goal it to let these grow together for a while obviously.. The barber pole is sort of what I was going for as well.. Hard tot ell from the raffia covering it, but this is a pretty dramatic twist the smaller one has around the larger one.

The only larger cuttings I have right now are the regular Sargent (not Shimpaku) variety, so with my next effort I plan to probably wrap two or more small shimp cuttings around a larger "regular" cutting to get more girth, and eventually remove most/ all of the foliage from the largest piece down the road... This should allow me to use the larger, faster growing variety to boost the growth rate, but still end up with Shimpaku foliage in the end... And it will give me plenty of branches and wood to create deadwood features out of... Again, years down the road... I started a couple cutting so far this season as well that are a little larger Shimpaku cuttings, so maybe I can revisit this in future years and accelerate the speed to a finished product as I start with more mature material!

Adair M said:

Yes, raffia wrapping can cause a mark if not removed.

Click to expand...

Yes, it sure can... But it won't bite in as deep as wire will normally, as it rots Away and tears apart before doing that usually (unless applied in multiple layers wrapped around one smaller area), and regardless of how much it cuts in, you do not wind up with wire embedded in the trunk/ branches which- I agree with you- can be quite unsightly and unnatural looking!

I considered doing this with wire, but could not come up with an easy way to get the trees wrapped around each other using the wire- unless it was left in a place where the tres would grow over it!

Soo happy to see some people trying this.

I want to try something very similar using vine material(wisteria, honeysuckle) and an interesting shaped old dead branch, not like a phoenix graft, but instead fully wrap the piece of wood with the vines so fusion occurs within the first 2 growing seasons.

The only issue I see with either is bark will still take the same amount of time to develop.

Cant wait to see how it turns out. keep us posted.

Eric Group said:

First, a bunch of the cuttings:

As you can see, a couple different varieties here. Mostly Shimpaku, some Regular Sergents.. they are so closely related I might try fusing a couple crossbreads because the regulars grow so much faster than Shimpaku..

The ones I decided to work with.. Small little cuttings, but damn the roots they made in a short amount of time!



Scraped the bark off where they will be joining:


Twisting and tying with rafia:





That was where my camera's battery died! Not much to look at right now. Potted them up in a little bulb pot, and I will let them grow this season. If they are looking good later this year I might go ahead and slip the root ball into the garden to leave it for a couple years.. if they are struggling I probably won't touch it again for a while.. some roots were removed as I separated the two cuttings, so they might not take off immediately. We will see what happens!

Click to expand...

Well it has been a long 5 days of work, but I think my little twisty Juniper project is a success- please let me know what you think of the finished product!

Eric Group said:

Well it has been a long 5 days of work, but I think my little twisty Juniper project is a success- please let me know what you think of the finished product!

Click to expand...

I think the pot is not centered on the stand.

Bonsai Nut said:

I think the pot is not centered on the stand.

Click to expand...

Other than that it's doing nicely.

Eric Group said:

Well it has been a long 5 days of work, but I think my little twisty Juniper project is a success- please let me know what you think of the finished product!

Click to expand...

I think I am stepping into my shoes and heading your way--SC isn't that far;
be prepared to show me EXACTLY where you purchase your plant food if that
is five days work.

Bonsai Nut said:

I think the pot is not centered on the stand.

Click to expand...

I knew I screwed something up!

You can totally tell the 2 species apart!

You can do better!

See you next week!

Seriously, nice, but I'd do some without bark removal!

Sorce

Ok, I have a few questions related to the topic.
1.) I have heard people say from time to time that the actual "show" styling of a coniferous tree is different than growth styling. Basically when growing you wire the branches more open to allow light and air in. When wiring and styling for show you compact the pads to get that perfect rounded top flat bottom shape. Any truth to this? Does anyone here follow these guidelines? After a show do you lay the pads out flat again?
2.) I have also heard some people state that trees are repotted for shows to allow them to go into a much shallower pot, but they spend most of their time in a larger pot. Is this a case by case basis? How does on differentiate between a pot that is too shallow to keep a tree in but still justify chopping the roots off to get it into a show pot? Do you put it back into the regular "grow" pot after the show?

1) when a tree is "in training", you grow for structure. It may take a couple years for that structure to develop. When wiring for show, you want the tree to look full. If the tree looks sparce, you may want to consolidate foliage together to form pads.

It's kinda like a Supermodel had to go to the gym every day to keep her figure. But she only puts on her makeup for a show.

2). Pots. Same deal. Do you really want to keep a tree in an expensive Antique Chinese pot ever day? Or use a similar sized/shaped one for every day, saving the expensive pot for a rainy day.

I didn't know this... I would want a really nice looking bonsai in the nice pot because I want to look at it, not only show it 3 days a year.
Do you put your trees in ugly pots to keep at your house and only use them for shows??

As an example:

Here is my JBP. The smaller red pot is it's show pot. The larger gray pot is its everyday pot.