Kiyohime Maple

eugen_onegin · Jul 13, 2015

Hey there fellow 'Nutters!

Need a little advice/thoughts on some issues I've been having recently with my Kiyohime.

Stats:

1 month ago, began fertilizing with Cottonseed and Guano in teabags. (2) bags only.
Gets about 3.5 legit hours of direct sun from approx 8:30am - 12:00pm. Everything else is covered shade but well ventilated.
Planted in almost entirely aggregate, 1/3 lava, 1/3 pumice, 1/3 turfice. Sprinkles of charcoal/spaghnum moss/pine bark.
It's been raining quite regularly in DC, I haven't watered my planets in at least 1 month.
Neem oil is now sprayed only when pests are noticed. In the spring, 2-3 applications were used of bionide like fungicide and neem oil were used.

Issues:

Leaves on a very segregated part of the plant slowly began to grey and eventually be consumed then die. The problem is now beginning to spread/being recognized in other leaves elsewhere. I recognized the problem about (1) month ago.
All new growth began shooting out after putting the (2) teabags filled with fertilizer with a majority of the leaves developing deformities. I will say, the newest growth, about 3 nodes out, is starting to look normal.

Love to know everyone's thoughts and what steps/measures I should take to remedy the situation.

MACH5 · Jul 13, 2015

Hmmm I fail to see what might be wrong... if anything. I see some scorching which is typical and as far as I see there is no evidence of a fungus infection. The distorted leaves are pretty common (could be insect related) in maples, quickly sorting themselves out like yours is doing. I am not sure anything is wrong with your kiyohime based on the pics provided.

Eric Group · Jul 14, 2015

Yeah, this normal wear and tear... Maple leaves are delicate. I get that it is raining, but a tree can make a pretty solid canopy over the pot that is hard for water to freely penetrate- are you sure it is getting plenty of water? That could be a cause of scorched/ dying leaves.. And the deformed leaves can be cause by everything from weather to fertilizer... They usually sort themselves out.

erb.75 · Jul 14, 2015

ya, my kiyohime maple has some issues with sun scorching/dying leaves. it's no biggie. It seems like it's my most sensitive bonsai, but it's probably nothing to worry about

eugen_onegin · Jul 14, 2015

Great advice, thanks for lowering my blood pressure everyone!

This tree has had some serious problems in the past, most notably the 7 stitches my ring finger needed on the first day I purchased and was making clones. Anyways, I had a post about 2 years ago where it appeared to be on its death bed. Nursed it back and now it appears to have regained some much needed vigor.

eugen_onegin · Apr 19, 2016

Without fail. The tree pushed real hard out of the spring gate. Everything looked incredibly healthy. The new growth has started to become disfigured and such. This may be normal "wear and tear" but it seems to happen almost every year. The tree looks amazingly healthy for the first month of Spring, then it begins to slowly decline until it limps into winter. Any thoughts?

eugen_onegin · Apr 19, 2016

Could this be from over fertilizing? I have 4 tea bags of cotton seed and guano. Occasionally hit with some fish emulsion and other low level organics.

johng · Apr 19, 2016

not for sure...but new maple foliage seems to be nectar from heaven for aphids...their sucking often causes disfigured new foliage like what seems to appear in your photo...

There are also some holes in the new leaves and I don't think that is from aphids but most likely from another insect or slugs

Safer soap???

eugen_onegin · Apr 19, 2016

I've been pretty diligent on keeping pests away. A kojo no mai cherry had aphids which transferred to the maple but I removed all of them the same day and the infestation has been in check and is completely gone.

Every year, they seem to push out the first new growth of spring, harden off, and then the second push tends to come out disfigured. Not sure if this is a result of the second flush of growth pushing to hard from the new fertilizing regiment from waking up after winter.

erb.75 · Apr 19, 2016

my kiyohime always gets beat up in summer...usually not this early thought. I keep mine out of full sun on the edge of a covered porch, but the leaves always get trashed a little by later summer

markyscott · Apr 19, 2016

Right off the bat, I'll tell you that I'm not sure what the problem is. I don't think it's sunburn, but it's likely one of these possibilities:

Root problem which could be caused by some combination of:
- Overly damp soil conditions (combination of lots of rain and high water retention)
- Fertilizer burn - guano is a very strong fertilizer which could be capable of causing this problem
Chemical burn
Fungal disease
Insects

I put them in the order of priority that I would go after the problem. If it's a root problem, I would begin by ceasing all fertilization and protect the tree from the rain. Make sure that you control the water and how often it gets it. Let the soil dry out sufficiently between watering. Maples like a soil that has a very high air-filled porosity. I tend to use coarser soil on them then many other plants because of this. Certainly nothing less than 1/4". You'll have to be careful with your mix as it seems as though it has components smaller than this which means it is probably more water retentive. Next year consider repotting and switching to a coarser mix.

If you see improvement, you can start fertilizing again. Go slow and avoid the guano. Try a gentle organic like fish emulsion at 1/2 strength once a week and see how it does.

If this isn't it, I wonder if it was the "bonide - like fungicide" may have burned the young shoots? Next year consider adopting a dormant spray regimen and skip the fungicides in spring. It's possible, but less likely, that this is a fungal disease and a dormant spray of dilute lime sulfur when the buds begin to swell will help with that as well.

Insects seem the least likely, because it doesn't look like insect damage to me and I'm thinking you would have seen them by now if it were.

eugen_onegin · Apr 22, 2016

Thanks for the reply All,

The soil should be relatively dry. DC/MD/VA has been pretty dry this Spring and I hand water once in the morning. This is a 1L/1P/1A mix that was sifted and has been in the same colander for 2-3 years now. I sprayed with neem oil this year in February as it was very balmy and wet late season. I do not like to spray deciduous very often if at all because the kiyohime leaves are specifically fragile.

I'm leaning towards the fertilizer. I usually put about 1/2 tsp. of guano and 1/2 tsp of cotton seed in each tea bag. I'll try removing the bags for the time being and let this little lady be for awhile. Even still, I may recall that this issue happened before I started the teabag approach (1-2 years ago). The tree is still in early development and of course I'm playing the impatient game and trying to fertilize a little more then I have in the past.

markyscott said:
Right off the bat, I'll tell you that I'm not sure what the problem is. I don't think it's sunburn, but it's likely one of these possibilities:

Root problem which could be caused by some combination of:

Overly damp soil conditions (combination of lots of rain and high water retention)

Fertilizer burn - guano is a very strong fertilizer which could be capable of causing this problem

Chemical burn

Fungal disease

Insects

I put them in the order of priority that I would go after the problem. If it's a root problem, I would begin by ceasing all fertilization and protect the tree from the rain. Make sure that you control the water and how often it gets it. Let the soil dry out sufficiently between watering. Maples like a soil that has a very high air-filled porosity. I tend to use coarser soil on them then many other plants because of this. Certainly nothing less than 1/4". You'll have to be careful with your mix as it seems as though it has components smaller than this which means it is probably more water retentive. Next year consider repotting and switching to a coarser mix.

If you see improvement, you can start fertilizing again. Go slow and avoid the guano. Try a gentle organic like fish emulsion at 1/2 strength once a week and see how it does.

If this isn't it, I wonder if it was the "bonide - like fungicide" may have burned the young shoots? Next year consider adopting a dormant spray regimen and skip the fungicides in spring. It's possible, but less likely, that this is a fungal disease and a dormant spray of dilute lime sulfur when the buds begin to swell will help with that as well.

Insects seem the least likely, because it doesn't look like insect damage to me and I'm thinking you would have seen them by now if it were.

Kiyohime Maple

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