what can i do to a pine this time of year

Define what you mean by a smaller pot? If you do anything it should go into some sort of colander, pond basket, or some sort of box with screen sides and bottom. I have found this the best way to deal with trees like you have mentioned. I would usually default to my training planter but I can no longer afford to make them and still sell them at a price people would be willing to pay. How large is the pot the tree is in currently? If you have the wood working skills you might take these as a model for what you need.

sorry-i have some large colanders that i was planning on putting it in -but they are a little smaller than the pot the tree is in.
my guess would be the colander is about as wide as the pot but half the height as the pot
from what i remember they are 5 gallon pots.
i don't have the tree yet ,i'm leaving in a bit to pick it up

The colanders will work as long as the difference in size is not too extreme. I assume the difference is in the height comparisons? That's not a problem as long as you are doing the chop at both ends. Here is how I would proceede, in fact for better or worse I did five Japanese Whit Pines I just picked up a few days ago. I reduce the tops down by 50% and the roots by 50%. Will they survive? I don't know that for sure. Over the years I have found out things by doing them and in doing so I have found some interesting things nor many are doing. Never the less; once you have the top chopped and the bottom chopped you need to loosen up the roots on the outside of the soil mass remaining. Hopefully they will not be too root bound and this process will be not too much.

How close is the foliage to the trunk?

This is of course a very good question that needs to be answered.

Well, most pines at nurseries of size usually have foliage way out on the ends of the branches.
If it were me I would look into how well these trees back bud. Adair says no decandling. But can shoots be cut off to induce back budding. Which are really the same thing right?
Because when they decandle JBP they are cutting shoots correct? Not cutting the actual candles off. So confusing.

Vance Wood said:

The colanders will work as long as the difference in size is not too extreme. I assume the difference is in the height comparisons? That's not a problem as long as you are doing the chop at both ends. Here is how I would proceede, in fact for better or worse I did five Japanese Whit Pines I just picked up a few days ago. I reduce the tops down by 50% and the roots by 50%. Will they survive? I don't know that for sure. Over the years I have found out things by doing them and in doing so I have found some interesting things nor many are doing. Never the less; once you have the top chopped and the bottom chopped you need to loosen up the roots on the outside of the soil mass remaining. Hopefully they will not be too root bound and this process will be not too much.

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that was my thoughts on how to approach this 50 off top 50 off bottom and just loosen the roots up a bit
i'm that way to-finding out how by doing.when i ask advice it may seem at times that i go ahead and do what i want anyway,but at least i'm getting some ideas and some sort of direction which is very helpful-so i am thankful for all your advice

i just came back from the nursery(homey d's),and they were having a 50% all trees and shrubs so i got 2 austrian pines for less than $50-$22.50 each
they probably 6 or 7 when i saw them the other day and i grabbed the last 2 they had.

the foliage isn't quite as close to the trunk as some of the ones they had but it is within 8-12" of the trunk
here's some pics of one(the other is my sons)

it's about 48"tall 24" wide and the trunk is 2" and 2 1/2" right at the base.
my thoughts are to chop it above the 2nd row of branches (actually 3rd counting the branches right at the soil line)

yeah it can get confusing how to treat each species of pine and i do have to figure things out with this.
i have seen some beautiful a p bonsai so i know it can be made into something nice
right now i want to do the replant and than keep it alive.but any advice on raising these trees are apreciated

thanks

ok just did the deed. chopped it right above the 2nd row of branches,which is about the 1/2 way point i'll start the repotting next.

after that should prune some branches i don't want or just leave it and let it recuperate

Dave E said:

it can get confusing

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What I'm getting at. The term decandling is the term they use when they are actually cutting shoots. And since this pine has 2 needles I wouldn't treat it as a white pine either.

i've been researching as much as possible and it's about 50/50 what i'm reading as far as to decandle or not.

i'm learning that it seems every step of bonsai 1 person says one thing and another says the opposite

repotted in a large 13" x 9" colander
cut half the roots off the bottom,lightly combed the roots on the sides just enough to loosen a bit,and cleaned up the dead needles off the surface.
i also cut off the branches that were on the surface.

here's some pics of the only side that has a view of the trunk.

the whole thing just looks like a messy mound of foliage and i'd like to clean it up a bit but don't want to do too much to the tree at once

I think you have to learn to sift out those who think they know because, they read something somewhere or they assumed something from something else they may have done or they are just plain fulll of whooie. Or you can talk to someone who has done it. That would not be me; but seeing no one else is giving you any feed back I am going to continue to offer options from my experience and knowledge of what a tree might do., and my understanding of what you want to accomplish.

Here are a few things I believe you can do. First of all you chopped the top correct? And you chopped the roots? You should be able to cut back some of the growth on the top and expect some back budding. Back budding is a natural response all tree posses to some extent to protect them from extinction in the event some pendejo comes along and tries to turn them into a bonsai. LOL?

Look at the new groewth and the way it is twisted around and appears to be collapsed and flacid. If this stuff is still like fresh asparagus we are probably OK. If it is limp like wilted lettuce you need to be a little concerned. However look again at the new growth. All of this stuff starts at a particular point where three or four candles have extended outward. This stuff needs to be cut back. At each point leave only two extending candles/shoots. Remove the rest. This should help provide some back budding. The tree should form buds that wont open till next spring. Keep an eye on the tree and in a week post another series of photos just like those you just posted. You can also go through and remove any and all of the needles that point down. This too will open the tree up and let light in which is needed here.

thanks for your advice Vance it is very helpful and makes sense.

as far as that crazy twisted collapsed kinda growth i gotta a feeling why it's like that.i did get this from home depot,and one day this week suddenly about 30+ pines appeared 6 or 7 were austrian pines.must be from being crammed in the delivery truck.

i'll take your advice and cut things back,and trim lower needles,and report back next week

thanks again

M Frary:

The number of needles in a bundle is not the determining factor as to whether it's a one flush or a two flush tree. There are some two needled pines that are single flush.

The only two flush trees I know of are JBP, JRP, and our native Virginia Pine. There may be others, I'm just not aware of them.

That's an awful lot of work on a pine at once in the middle of summer. I killed my first few JBP doing this, maybe P. nigra is tougher. I wish you good luck, but I'd probably stop here and see how it responds to this work over the next few months.

I don't think it is so much the amount of work but the fact the one encourages the other. If you damage the top the roots are forced to try to heal them. This is of course my theory.

Adair M said:

M Frary:

The number of needles in a bundle is not the determining factor as to whether it's a one flush or a two flush tree. There are some two needled pines that are single flush.

The only two flush trees I know of are JBP, JRP, and our native Virginia Pine. There may be others, I'm just not aware of them.

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Loblolly are almost a 3 flush pine, but the needles are long lol

Another odd ball Pine is the Pitch Pine. Of course it has three needles in a bundle, it is unique. It back buds on really old and barked up wood.