Duchamp's Fountain of the bonsai world.

Walter Pall

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Duchamp's Fountain of the bonsai world.
12065661_1635431320062358_7196194713210287355_n.jpg Duchamp_Fountaine.jpg SAL_2978.jpg



Recently at the Artisans Cup 2015 in the Art Museum of Portland, Oregon this piece was among the 71 bonsai exhibited. It is by David Crust, who is a student of Nick Lenz. I am sure that this was the most confusing if not disturbing piece of the whole exhibit. I was asked by many what I had thought of it as judge. In my answers I called it 'Duchamp's Fountain of the bonsai world'.

So what is Duchamps's Fountain? I have to digress here to make this more understandable: In the year 1917 the art world was in turmoil and much discussion was going on what was art, what was good at, what was not art and who made these decisions. Up to around 1880 the world was in order. Art was something that was beautiful and that appealed to most people. Painting and sculpture were realistic, up to photographic realism. This was more or less consensus among the art world and the general public. In the following decades the art world fell apart. Impressionists dared to paint outside in natural light and painted the world as they saw it and not as they were told to see it. Some did not paint in strokes but painted in what today is pixels - unheard of. Some painted things that one could hardly recognize any more. Then some painted abstract - end of civilization! All sort of 'insanity',abounded.

There was an open fight whether the new stuff was art. The art museums decided that it was not. So the new artists created their own art museums which still exist in Paris and other places as 'secession'. At art exhibits a strong judging system tried to avoid influx of unhealthy art.The general public decided that it hurts the eyes. So who decided what was art and good art? The museum Directors thought they did and they did indeed by exclusion. The gallerists did by selecting what they thought could be sold. They were astounded that the 'naive' Americans bought all this crap because they had no idea what good art was. The general public as always thought that they decided - what the majority liked was good art and what the majority hated was bad art. Nobody asked the artists.

At the most important art exhibit in the world in 1917 in Paris, Marcel Duchamp did the unthinkable. He managed to get into the exhibit what is widely called 'Fountian'. This is a euphemism because it really was a urinal, but the word is so obscene, isn't it. Well, obscene and shocking is what Duchamp wanted dot be. Therefore it should be clalled by it’s real name.

It was a urinal as mass produced industrially with no alterations or additions by the artist. When asked what in the world he was smoking
Duchamps said along the lines 'so many parties think that they decide what art is and should be, nobody has asked the artists. Her is the answer: the artist alone decides what art is. This is a urinal and I call it art, high art, good enough for the most important art exhibit. It is art because I have decided so. Period!.' What a scandal! up to today. Duchamp had invented the ultimate scandal as promoting art and himself. We are now so used to this as it had become commonplace in the art world. But at that time it was a novelty and it took a genius to do that. And Duchmp had invented what is called 'Conceptual Art'. This means that one has to know things to understand it. While eg a nude female or male body as sculpture needs no explanation and is understood by everyone instantly a urinal does need explanation. If one would not know what at this means one could think it is a mistake, it is crap. So ironically the cleaning crew thought after the end of the show and threw the original away. In 2005 around 1400 art historians from around the world congregated and had to vote for the most important piece of at of the past century . Guess what they came up with.

Back to the bonsai world. Yes, this is in a way shocking and it does need explanation. What exactly is it anyway? It is apparently a vintage Kirby vacuum cleaner probably from the fifties in which a nice little larch is planted and an Angel is hanging from it. It is by David Crust but could well have been by Nick Lenz. Is it art? Is it beautiful? It is ugly as good art - much to the surprise of many - does not have to be beautiful. And it is art as it was done by an artist.

It is a statement: 'the bonsai world was in order up to around 1985 when everybody knew what was right and what was wrong. It all could be found in the bonsai bible - John Naka I, Old Testament, John Naka II, New Testament. Everybody knew what was good and what was bad. And then came modern bonsai - they looked more like sculptures than trees. Then naturalism, bonsai looked like trees and not like bonsai - how dare they! Bonsai rules were obsolete. Then penjing - how ugly! Then other strange aberrations like Fairy Tale Bonsai Style. Nobody knows what is right or wring any more. Who decides what is bonsai art and what not? The ones who judge the entries to exhibits do. The judges for the exhibit do. The customers who buy do. The magazines by what they print do. The viewers on the internet do by their 'likes'. Nobody asks the artists.

This is the answer of an artist who says " I, the artist, decide what is art and what is not. This is art, period! It does not matter what others think It is not a democratic decision. If the ordinary person does it it is crap, if the artist does it it is art."

This is a statement that wants to say: the whole world thinks that what they like is good and what they don't like is bad. So what - they don't count. This room is full of vanity, all the bonsai try to be as beautiful as possible, as impressive as possible. They are craving for the public's attention and for winning awards or fetchng money. And the artists are following the wishes of the public. They create the kind of art that the public wants. This is artistic prostitution!. And this artist clearly shows so.

Like it or not. It will go into the history of bonsai art because it is the clearest statement so far that proves that bonsai is an art form. The discussion is open and will never end - as is the practise in art since ever. We will never again be certain what is good an what is bad. We will have to see what artists come up with.
 

Djtommy

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Isn't it the judges at the show who decided which is the better art? Those are the ones that graded all bonsai

I agree that this display is art, I mean the display as a whole. The tree itself I don't think is that great at all and it only got into the artisanscup for the display as a whole. But that's also the idea I believe for the artist.it isn't about the tree it's about what the display as a whole presents. One could say it's art using bonsai.

That's very different from the other trees in the show where it was about to have the tree itself impress and the display as a background to make the tree even more impressive.

So then, can you really grade this art amongst the others? If one would judge the tree itself it wouldn't get a good grade but doing so would define what're display wants to do.

I also don't think the artist was longing for a good grade from the judges anyway where as all others probably are.

I think the other display is more bonsai art. This one is art using bonsai.

Perhaps one should have just a show showing art. Bonsai art and display art but no judges. Or can judges say which is better art.
Of is it still about the better tree?

Grtz
Tommy
 

Ceijay

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First off this post is so great! Second I think maybe it's more modern than dada but I totally get what you mean.

I've been following along with the discussion about what is American bonsai and immediately I thought of Duchamp and his fountain. When it comes to art ( and bonsai by extension ) you might as well be talking about soil mixes when it comes to ideas like taste or style.
 

Anthony

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Walter, I am leaving my Brother-in-laws response here for all.
Good Day
Anthony



"Walter,

there is a move in Fine Art, that started small sometime after world war 2, where Ateliers, started to train painters how to draw and paint well, much as what was in the years of the Old Masters of the Renaissance. Examples are Da Vinci, Titian, Raphael, and so on.
Today, the Ateliers are much more numerous and painters are expected to be able to draw and paint well.

I see Bonsai is attempting to find it's way, and with that I say more power to you!!!

For me however, my love is in growing trees, and the memories that come attached with the trees, climbing, resting in the shade, first kiss, first embrace ..., birds nesting, wind in the leaves and ...........
I see trees well done, standing by themselves needing no other ornaments [ distractions ] and needing no explanation, for me that is when Bonsai will reach the idea of Art.
As a an oil painting needs no explanation, it just is, so too, will the composition / pattern / design of a Bonsai appeal if only until ihe tree continues to grow on. BUT by then we should be using 3d technology to illustrate our trees.

Best to you and your continued efforts.
Laters.
Khaimraj"
 

jriddell88

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I am not familiar with the artist , mostly because I don't really keep up with modern day artists , everyone's always trying to be a modern day master , better than everyone else. Indeed this artist is being an artist and just shows the evolution of humans taking bonsai, an art form, and pushing it to the limits. I myself, am a fan of traditional bonsai, but just like all other art forms you have traditional and contemporary. This guy is probably a fan of Banksy. Pretty smooth though if he wasn't famous he will be pretty well known after this one.
 

sorce

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Walter, well put.

Crust, well done!
I have mostly forgotten the other trees. I can NOT forget this one. I mean a vivid picture! The jin! Angle.
Very well done indeed!

Sorce
 

Cadillactaste

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I must say...scrolling down the photo of the urinal I thought was an error of one posting the wrong photo. Until I read all your thread.

I must say...I love the tradition of same old same old,the history that it represents as well. But, I am also one who loves those who roll to the beat of their own drum. The vacuum was definitely an outside of the box artistic thought process that I feel packed quite a punch. I love repurposing things. So Crust's display captured my attention. I'm not really into modern...so had it been high end modern it might not have grasp me to the degree his did. But I found it intriguing and did like his display (photos I've seen). Even though a vacuum has nothing really the to do with bonsai. the bones went well with the tree.
 

Eric Group

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I like this tree on it's own... to me, the whole piece kind of reminds me of what we see all over the south- junk dumped out in the woods somewhere and nature is reclaiming it. You see trees growing up through the trunk of an old car or vines and trees growing in/ wrapped around all sorts of old metal devices... That is what it reminds me of and in that sense, I like it... Isn't that what is so great about art? It means different things to different people? It may not be the biggest, most beautiful tree from the cup, but it may well have been the best piece of ART on display from the pics I have seen.
 

barrosinc

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I think it is a really cool idea and follows the Lenz-Crust line as seen on many other bonsais.

I could probably draw it with a lot of detail without even looking at it (because it really hit me, the ones in baby dolls not so much hahaha), but maybe it was in the wrong place (probably in a MOMA)? I think bonsai shows must focus on trees and afterwards on the complete display and here the display is a lot more important than the tree itself. But that is just my opinion.

As Walter very well said, there is no right or wrong, just what the artist thinks... and on those lines, @crust did a tremendous job. So hats off to you fellow nutter!
 

Djtommy

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Tommy, I wonder whether you should read this through several times again. The answers to your post are written there.
Hi Walter, well i guess i wrote it a bit too fast, it was on my phone so..
But then do you think this tree then actually fits into the artisanscup?
I feel like it doesnt, why is because the cup is set up as a contest.
And this display just wants to be seen. So i think its fine that it can be shown at the cup but then not as a contender but as an art piece to show the public apart from the contenders.

If you think about it, if you really want to change the way bonsai is shown, i dont think it should be in the form of a contest. Just an artexhibit. No judges, no ribbons, just enjoy the trees/displays. The artisans cup looked like very nice way but it was still a contest. Same as every other big show.

Personally i dont really like this kirby cleaner display but that doesnt really matter.
It would probably bring a smile on my face for a moment and i think its kinda funny but thats about it. Well i also dont like some trees at kokufu, and those dont bring a smile on my face..
Just personal taste.
 

jriddell88

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Hi Walter, well i guess i wrote it a bit too fast, it was on my phone so..
But then do you think this tree then actually fits into the artisanscup?
I feel like it doesnt, why is because the cup is set up as a contest.
And this display just wants to be seen. So i think its fine that it can be shown at the cup but then not as a contender but as an art piece to show the public apart from the contenders.

If you think about it, if you really want to change the way bonsai is shown, i dont think it should be in the form of a contest. Just an artexhibit. No judges, no ribbons, just enjoy the trees/displays. The artisans cup looked like very nice way but it was still a contest. Same as every other big show.

Personally i dont really like this kirby cleaner display but that doesnt really matter.
It would probably bring a smile on my face for a moment and i think its kinda funny but thats about it. Well i also dont like some trees at kokufu, and those dont bring a smile on my face..
Just personal taste.
Amen
 
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Walter, well put.

Crust, well done!
I have mostly forgotten the other trees. I can NOT forget this one. I mean a vivid picture! The jin! Angle.
Very well done indeed!

Sorce

Same for me too! This was also the tree I heard most talking about in and ouside of the exhibition.
 

Bunjeh

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Art is defined as "the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance." Key is the " phrase according to aesthetic principles". However, while technically anything can be art the true test is whether or not it is appreciated. Just as we have argued many times before that any "tree in a tray" meets the definition of bonsai, there is a huge difference between "bonsai" and a tree in a tray. So,..while this may be "art" and may be of more than ordinary significance,.. to me it is crap.
 

JoeR

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I like this tree on it's own... to me, the whole piece kind of reminds me of what we see all over the south- junk dumped out in the woods somewhere and nature is reclaiming it. You see trees growing up through the trunk of an old car or vines and trees growing in/ wrapped around all sorts of old metal devices... That is what it reminds me of and in that sense, I like it... Isn't that what is so great about art? It means different things to different people? It may not be the biggest, most beautiful tree from the cup, but it may well have been the best piece of ART on display from the pics I have seen.
Exactly what it brought to mind for me as well.



I love all of these quality discussion posts that have started popping up. This forum was in dire need for quality material again and the artisans cup has, if nothing else, inspired a much needed look into what bonsai is, should be, and what it is going to become.
 

coh

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thumblessprimate1

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That's kinda cool.
 

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0soyoung

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I think Duchamap fountain is a pun. Dogs are renouned for drinking from toilets. A urinal = a dog fountain, one by R. Mutt (our mutt). It talks to me. Isn't that the point of art? Crust's creation alludes to a story that required his telling it before I understood. Nevertheless, it is irreverent crap. I wish I had such talent.
 
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