Liquidambar orientalis - SweetGum

ColinFraser · Mar 16, 2016

So here's where my mind is on this one. This image is what will most likely be the back, but it's clearer than the other one for illustrative purposes.

A ground layer around the lower red line, a final height under the upper red line, and bending and/or re-growing portions of the lowest couple of branches to be a little lower and wider.

I'll probably layer the top off somewhere in the yellow zone and then regrow a lower and more tapered apex.

0soyoung · Mar 16, 2016

Even though it would be a far more challenging project, I might want to remove the entire trunk above that first/lowest 'whirl' of branches. I think that might be developed fairly quickly into an interesting tree - heavy trunk to a spray of branches.

The trunk above that first 'whirl' is gently bendy and might be a good start to another taller, more slender, feminine form - I dunno.

...just talkin' ideas with ya ....

But, ground layer = yes.

Brian Van Fleet · Mar 17, 2016

I wouldn't ground layer that. I would work on the existing roots over a few repots instead. You'll get results in probably the same amount of time, without the risk or sacrifice of trunk.

Planting it deeper would also resolve most of the discontent. It's too high in the pot, so you're showing things that ought not be seen!

ColinFraser · Mar 17, 2016

Brian Van Fleet said:
I wouldn't ground layer that. I would work on the existing roots over a few repots instead. You'll get results in probably the same amount of time, without the risk or sacrifice of trunk.

Planting it deeper would also resolve most of the discontent. It's too high in the pot, so you're showing things that ought not be seen!

Thanks for the feedback. I know it's a drastic step, but I'm concerned that I could spend years on those roots and still have something mediocre - I'm not completely sold on the ground layer though; I may get the top air layer started and make sure I can pull it off with this species before risking the whole thing. Planting it deeper is a definite if the roots stay.

There are two other issues that a ground layer helps with though. Here is a picture from the probable front to illustrate. First, the green arrow is an area that is flirting with reverse taper and bugs me. Second, if I bring the height down considerably, but leave the base where it is, the the distance from the soil to the first branch is nearly half the height of the tree. By bringing up the base, the overall proportions may be better . . .

ColinFraser · Mar 17, 2016

This should help give a flavor of the mess that is the current rootage:

sorce · Mar 20, 2016

Hubba Bubba!

Sorce

JudyB · Mar 20, 2016

ColinFraser said:
Yep. No chop, but I haven't started the layers yet either - just cutting a few heavy branches back.

I'm actually thinking that I might ground layer the whole thing at the widest point a couple of inches above the existing root mess.

Now that sounds like a good plan. Although I would try to do it lower, like right in the middle of the roots maybe, as there is a nice flair. If the new roots start from the ends of the individual roots it might be a nice start.

Oops posted that and then saw the additional pictures of the base, hmmm.

ColinFraser · Mar 20, 2016

JudyB said:
Oops posted that and then saw the additional pictures of the base, hmmm.

Yeah, it's kind of a "10-footer" - it looks pretty good at that distance, but less so up close. With this one I just feel like "good enough" isn't good enough; I want to try to make it great. I'm still thinking that means I need to leave the knot behind . . . though I hate giving up the flare you mentioned at the base. In the plus column, I could have it in a shallow pot within a year with a layer . . .

JudyB · Mar 20, 2016

Can't you go like 1/2" -1" below where the flair starts and still loose most of the ugly?

I fear if you layer it above, you'll have no taper. And you will not like that either.

ColinFraser · Mar 20, 2016

JudyB said:
Can't you go like 1/2" -1" below where the flair starts and still loose most of the ugly?

Perhaps. Unfortunately, that doesn't address my other concern - the bulge at the green arrow in my post above - you can see in the upper left corner of the root close-ups that it shows a bit of reverse taper. If I can get a new root flare from the widest point of that bulge, I think it could actually have pretty good taper . . .

ColinFraser · Mar 20, 2016

I really appreciate the feedback on this stage @JudyB , @Brian Van Fleet , @0soyoung

. The 'devil's advocacy' and alternative suggestions are definitely helping my thought process.

JudyB · Mar 20, 2016

Well keep us posted with what you wind up doing.

ColinFraser · Apr 30, 2016

I'm in an air layering kind of mood lately, so I got going on this one too.
This before photo also shows that I cut back the lowest branch a while ago to get some backbudding started closer to its base.

Edit: Just realized the old price tape is visible at the bottom! Don't worry, I didn't pay half that for it

ColinFraser · Apr 30, 2016

I cleaned up a few unnecessary branches around the whorl just below where the layer will be, and I also thinned the top out some.

ColinFraser · Apr 30, 2016

Air layer achievement unlocked! I always want to try and get a ring of bark off in one piece, and it almost never works out that way. This one was compliant:

0soyoung · Apr 30, 2016

ColinFraser said:
Air layer achievement unlocked! I always want to try and get a ring of bark off in one piece, and it almost never works out that way. This one was compliant:
View attachment 103537 View attachment 103538

Now, you have to wear it!

ColinFraser · Apr 30, 2016

A split pot for this one.

ColinFraser · Apr 30, 2016

So, here's the whole thing thinned out with layer started:

And back out in the garden, where the green pot blends right in

ColinFraser · Apr 30, 2016

The branch coming forward just below the pot in that last photo is my first choice for new leader on the lower tree.

I'm not going to start a ground layer yet, but if this works out, perhaps I will be emboldened . . .

ColinFraser · Apr 30, 2016

Oh, and here is one possible view of what the tree coming off of the top will look like:

Liquidambar orientalis - SweetGum

Masterpiece

Imperial Masterpiece

Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Nonsense Rascal

Queen of the Nuts

Masterpiece

Queen of the Nuts

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Queen of the Nuts

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Imperial Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

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