Celtis Sinensis - Chinese Hackberry - Thoughts and Suggestions

I purchased a Celtis Sinensis from someone who was busy getting rid of some of his bonsai. This bonsai was actually a thick root that was thrown under a bench which then started grow. He was planning to portray a very big old tree that has fallen over and this all that is left after most of the old trunk died and rotted/broke/burnt away.


Spring 2012

The tree was cut back again slightly in Spring of 2013 and wired. The tree had not progressed well because the specific hybrid went into early hibernation this year – did not matter what he had tried, the tree refused to grow.

Spring 2013

During the summer of 2014 some carving was done on the tree. The trunk was hollowed out slightly and connected through to the wound on the front.



This is what the tree looked like in December 2014 before cutting.

After a cut and a wire, the tree looked much better.


I bought the tree from him in November 2015

Front View



Back View


Closer view of the hollowed out trunk

In January 2016 we had a huge heatwave whilst I was on vacation but luckily I had someone looking after all my bonsai whilst I was away.


We recently had our monthly bonsai meeting and I decided to take this for the show table. I put down a load of moss and tidied it up.


This is how it looked like on the show table.

As we are heading into winter, I am waiting for the leaves to fall as this will give me a better idea of the branch structure and how I will proceed with this tree in Spring. But added onto that, I feel that I need to do some more carving onto the trunk. I want to show off the hollow more so I feel the trunk needs to be carved down towards the yellow line.



Then the front straight up trunk bothers me. I find it too straight and the wound on it just catches ones eye immediately. I am thinking of carving it or splitting it from the top down about half way to let it add some character then just the round wound.

The orange would be carving down into the trunk.



The red would be splitting the trunk


The lowest branch on the left right at the base could also be wired and bent round the front of the tree to cover the front trunk slightly.

Lets hear thoughts and suggestions etc.

Interesting piece of material.
The trunk in front of a trunk is killing me... sorry. If it was mine I would definitely eliminate the one in front, and make it a small jin, perhaps even hollow in the middle to match the old log feel that you tree has going on. Smaller pot, ditch the rocks, and for me the tree is to leggy. To much spacing between nodes. Often I see trees where people have them where they finally want them, are happy with them, and are just now waiting for them to fill in... problem is that when constructing the tree they had something where they liked it, didn't want to cut back and grow new in its place, and thus because of the larger spacing between nodes, will have no more areas for stuff to grow from... so, will not actually fill in much more than it currently is.

sawgrass said:

the tree is to leggy.

Click to expand...

Hi Sawgrass.

Definitely too leggy. During winter I will be able to look at the branch structure properly with no leaves and definitely do a cut back on it to get it to fill out.

sawgrass said:

perhaps even hollow in the middle to match the old log feel that you tree has going on

Click to expand...

Something like this? Remove the front trunk and carve down to the yellow?

I'd go along with removing the trunk at the front, and your yellow line should leave a stump that could be useful in the design.

I'd be very careful about following your yellow line round and carving away the bark on the main trunk though - you might risk losing all the live material at the front of the tree (been there, done that). In your position I would think about reducing it slowly, over a number of years, and staying as far away from the hollow at the bottom right as you can.

I gotta come back to this and read after work....but for now...

Damn!

Sorce

sorce said:

I gotta come back to this and read after work....but for now...

Damn!

Sorce

Click to expand...

Hopefully that is a HOT Damn!

LOL

Well yeah!

All I know....is it used to look like a duck!

Now it's treeish!

I really can't wait to read through this and the times.

Looks real nice!

Sorce

Ok I see....

Nice...

The 2 trunks could be a bit bothersome...
I'd keep the smaller one...cuz it's more changeable, usable, growable....
Or leave it.

Nothing in the yellow lines bothers me as much as the right, where it hits the soil...
It seems there should be more visable "rotted log" that extends into the soil..
But I think a bit more moss could be an easy fix.

Other than that....it really tells an old fallen tree story quite well..

Score!

Sorce

Thanks Sorce

sorce said:

It seems there should be more visable "rotted log" that extends into the soil..
But I think a bit more moss could be an easy fix.

Click to expand...

Not to sure what you mean about this.

Are you talking about the area circled in red? Should it be carved more showing dead wood?

Right now...."from where I'm sitting".....

It feels the opposite...I'm looking for the rest of the fallen tree.....I'd like to see more material there.


Where I run around and play in the woods, I see trees like this all the time...
I think that's why I need to see the extension of that dead trunk.

If you Can see that little brown I drew..
That could be just mossed higher....or , eh, maybe an old piece of dead rotted wood?
(could be a little overboard) just laying there, maybe going into the soil...anything to indicate a continuation of that fallen trunk..(black line). It only pops out cuz of the dip in the moss.

This is kind of the same uncomfortable feeling as an undercut base, only different!

Other notes.
While the whole thing may be potted a lil high....the distance from soil/moss to that Uro is perfect...that Uro is lovely!

I would just let the rest on the left do what it does, I don't think you need to carve anything else!

A little lichen/moss/dirt/grime on the trunk base could only make this look better, more true to story.

I love it.
I'm so stuck on looking for the rest of the tree ......none of the trunks concern me right now....plus, I think time is on your side with this...it's gonna fall into its design really well.

A good blend of challenging and righteous, this is gonna be a fun tree to watch!

Here's all I got to play with for Hackberry!

Sorce

Thanks so much Sorce for the positive feedback. I am glad you like the tree and I totally understand your vision on this. I like that idea of maybe adding a piece of old rotting dead wood. Creates more of a scene.

Also can definitely look out for some lichen or maybe baby ferns to put in there to give it more of an authentic feel

sorce said:

Here's all I got to play with for Hackberry!

Click to expand...

Its a start. Have fun playing.

TomB said:

I'd go along with removing the trunk at the front, and your yellow line should leave a stump that could be useful in the design.

I'd be very careful about following your yellow line round and carving away the bark on the main trunk though - you might risk losing all the live material at the front of the tree (been there, done that). In your position I would think about reducing it slowly, over a number of years, and staying as far away from the hollow at the bottom right as you can.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your feedback Tom. I do want to bring it down and will definitely keep this info in mind.

I would not totally eliminate the front branch, but chop it low and restart it going left. That way you still get three trunks, and not in front of each other. I like your ideas so far on a really challenging piece of material.

JudyB said:

I would not totally eliminate the front branch, but chop it low and restart it going left. That way you still get three trunks, and not in front of each other. I like your ideas so far on a really challenging piece of material.

Click to expand...

Funny. I thought something similar to that right before reading your comment. Only I'd hope from a chop to get two trunks from the chop. Then, I'd like to add a small sapling on the other end to get going as a 5th trunk as if it were a younger trunk growing out from the base.

I'd like to see some taper and subtle movement in the trunks and branches. Perhaps it could use some chopping on all trunks at different points in the future?

Hi Dorian,

thanks for updating this, I've wondered for a long time how this tree ended up after the ryuga competition,

I think growing the trunks on there much thicker will solve a lot of problems. I'll draw up a virt for you?
the current trunks have too little movement to my liking, growing them on and doing trunk chops on all of them will add the dramatic taper and movement I think it needs. not sure about the carving as it is completely lost on me, that is my better half's area...

It will have more of a penjing feel than a traditional bonsai feel to it though

best regards
Herman

JudyB said:

I would not totally eliminate the front branch, but chop it low and restart it going left. That way you still get three trunks, and not in front of each other. I like your ideas so far on a really challenging piece of material.

Click to expand...

It is hard to tell because of the rocks on the left, but there is another trunk coming off the left at the base of the one I suggested removing. There will still be 3 trunks, right now he has 4