Celtis Sinensis - Chinese Hackberry - Thoughts and Suggestions

Dorian Fourie · Mar 23, 2016

I thought that I would add some images taken from the side of the tree.

This is a better image of the trunk at the back of the fallen stump. It is fairly thick.

A picture from the side showing the 2 trunks (Front and back) with the rock removed.

Another view of the trunk from the side. I have lifted some of the branches to get a better view of the stump.

Another side view of the tree without the branches moved.

Dorian Fourie · Mar 23, 2016

The area that I marked in yellow I want to carve away. Just remove the dead wood so that when one looks at it from the front, one will be able to see the hollow trunk.

Dorian Fourie · Mar 23, 2016

JudyB said:
I would not totally eliminate the front branch, but chop it low and restart it going left. That way you still get three trunks, and not in front of each other. I like your ideas so far on a really challenging piece of material.

Hi Judy
Would it not be better then to actually totally remove the front trunk by carving it down to the yellow line and then using the branch that is there (Blue) and wire it upwards to the grey area to take the place of the front trunk? I think that is what Sawgrass is suggesting?

sawgrass said:
It is hard to tell because of the rocks on the left, but there is another trunk coming off the left at the base of the one I suggested removing. There will still be 3 trunks, right now he has 4

Hi Sawgrass. Am I correct in understanding what you said?

Dorian Fourie · Mar 23, 2016

YukiShiro said:
Hi Dorian,

thanks for updating this, I've wondered for a long time how this tree ended up after the ryuga competition,

I think growing the trunks on there much thicker will solve a lot of problems. I'll draw up a virt for you?
the current trunks have too little movement to my liking, growing them on and doing trunk chops on all of them will add the dramatic taper and movement I think it needs. not sure about the carving as it is completely lost on me, that is my better half's area...

It will have more of a penjing feel than a traditional bonsai feel to it though

best regards
Herman

Hi Herman.

Yes I was lucky enough to get this tree into my collection. I believe it has so much potential to be really great hence the reason I posted it on this forum to get more advice on how to proceed.
I would love to see a virt as the one you did for my olive is great so I know you will do a great job on it.

A Random User · Mar 23, 2016

Dorian Fourie said:
Hi Judy
Would it not be better then to actually totally remove the front trunk by carving it down to the yellow line and then using the branch that is there (Blue) and wire it upwards to the grey area to take the place of the front trunk? I think that is what Sawgrass is suggesting?

Hi Sawgrass. Am I correct in understanding what you said?

View attachment 98684

Yes, that was what I was suggesting. I am in agreement with Judy, that I personally would not reduce the tree back to a two trunk tree either. I would use the lower branch in blue that you have highlighted as a third trunk.

Problem I see though, is the heavy front trunk is feeding a lot of what is live on the front... so quite a bit of this is naturally going to die. For me, I don't see a problem with that, but something to consider if you would like to retain a lot of the live portion on the face of the trunk.

If you look at the top of this front branch, there is almost a uro, from a chop. I like this feature, but down at the base of the trunk about an inch up.

As mentioned if one kills off this trunk, a good portion of the front is naturally going to die. So I would not carve down to the yellow line, but let this area naturally die, remove the bark when it does them see where one needs to move forward.

Only alternative for myself, if one didn't want to do as I have suggested is find another front. I would suggest to the right, but then you would loose sight of the deadwood chop feature of the tree, putting it at the back.

Dorian Fourie · Mar 28, 2016

So I was looking at the tree today and I decided to open up the rotted trunk slightly. I only broke off the small corner of the rotted trunk on the front and I think when it starts to turn darker over time, it will definitely be an improvement.

I added in some some ferns and put some small pieces of dead wood but it is a work in progress. I think right now it is fooling around just to get a feel of what may look good for a later show down the line. But one thing I did think I would have to do in Spring, is changing the potting angle. Looking at the previous pictures from straight in front, the front trunk hides most for the back trunk. I feel just a slight turn of the fallen trunk will present a more pleasent picture.

Thoughts?

Jeremy · Mar 28, 2016

I think the back trunk being the tallest and closest to centre should be dominant, but is currently hidden by the trunk in front. Perhaps the front trunk could be cut back to the low shoot and then wired up to a 45° angle so it doesn't obscure the view of the main trunk, and also adds a bit of movement to the composition. It's a nice start and interesting material. Any major changes should be developed quickly being a celtis

Dorian Fourie · Aug 15, 2016

Spring is just around the corner so it was time to do a repot on this Celtis.
Before

After. I rotated it so that one can see all 3 trunks and did a cut back on many of the branches. Still undecided on the lowest branch on the left.

YukiShiro · Aug 16, 2016

Hi Dorian,

I have to apologize, with everything going on I completely forgot about this

I still remember exactly what I saw in this piece of material. Very chinese feel to it

Here is my take

soz for being late with this

Best regards
Herman

Anthony · Aug 16, 2016

Dorian,

it's beautiful!
On our side the various Celtis, try to heal their wounds.
My suggestion, leave alone.
Let it heal itself and take a look again in 10 years. Build the branchlets.

Thanks for showing.

Last image is ------------------------------------------------------------- beautiful.
Good Day
Anthony

just.wing.it · Aug 16, 2016

Such a cool piece! Awesome looking, I love the hollow log look.

Milly · Aug 16, 2016

Hi Dorian, I like Herman's idea for this tree and thought from the start that the deadwood should be extended to join the hole lower down the trunk.

sorce · Aug 16, 2016

YukiShiro said:
my take

If that is suggesting cutting off the left tree and using the remaining "lower left branch" to create the left tree with wiggle....

I like it....that could solve all the problems!

A bit more long term....

But long term to Friggin perfect!

Sorce

Cancel that thought from the pictures thread!

YukiShiro · Aug 16, 2016

sorce said:
Cancel that thought from the pictures thread!

I missed this bro

sorce · Aug 16, 2016

YukiShiro said:
I missed this bro

I wish Dorian had too.

Sorce

sorce · Aug 16, 2016

@YukiShiro
@Dorian Fourie

I WAS talking about notching that trunk at the low branch and pulling it left...

But...

If the big top section is cut off, and replaced with the little branch, the ugly sound will be gone...and the middle tree can be dominant....

Sorce

YukiShiro · Aug 16, 2016

aha!

yes my idea would take a long time, but with something as unique as this piece of material I would invest the time, I like the Chinese way of doing deciduous trees, they are so characterful

and I think that trying to fit this into a japanese form would be like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

the deadwood extension down to the ground taking out the hole can wait until the rest is in place, then assess it again, if it looks better with the deadwood stopping before the hole keep it that way

PS. excuse my horrible sketch

best regards
Herman

thumblessprimate1 · Aug 16, 2016

Reminds me of my Hackberry. I might have even been influenced by yours.

fredman · Aug 16, 2016

YukiShiro said:
excuse my horrible sketch

Yes its horribly fantastic

Dorian Fourie · Aug 16, 2016

YukiShiro said:
Hi Dorian,

I have to apologize, with everything going on I completely forgot about this

I still remember exactly what I saw in this piece of material. Very chinese feel to it

Here is my take

soz for being late with this

Hi Herman

No problem bud. Totally understand. But in saying that the picture was worth the wait. I love that idea. It definitely can work. Long term project yes but the rewards will be worth it.

Thanks man. I really appreciate it.

Celtis Sinensis - Chinese Hackberry - Thoughts and Suggestions

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