It's a really nice JWP, Judy! And pictures never are able to covey the depth of the tree effectively. The only way to really experience the tree is to have it in front of you.
Be safe in the ice!
Japanese White pine #2
- Thread starter JudyB
- Start date
Be safe in the ice!
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Made it to work, only had to spend an hour with the salt/ash combo on the curve down from my house. Crampons are essential gear here sometimes. Even with a Subaru, getting down can be tricky! Back up is never a problem...
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Here are some other angles of this tree, it's hard to see the trunk flow a bit under the needle clusters, but you can see that the apex moves quite strongly toward the front. I am going to try out some angles this spring, tipping to the right and forward a bit I think. The topmost branch of the apex has a lot of growing to do to finish the image of the apex coming back to the right...
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Picture 2 is the back of the tree, the apex moves far too much toward the other side I think. The bark plating is also not as natural looking on the back of the trunk. I Would have to change the entire structure of the branching to make the side (#1 Pic) an option. But I see what you're seeing there.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
Well, I know, but if you knew how many trees after styling look better from the back...
From the first picture (left side view), bigger part of the tree moves to the back. From the other side view it's 50:50.
Looking at your present front, some adjustment on the top could help. But there's an empty and open space I think you want to keep. And the wood of this size can be rigid enough.
Here's a picture to show what I mean...pushing the circled branch and top down, more towards the viewer.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Oh, but I do... I've turned many a tree that I've worked from one side for years to the other side
BUT the bark is too much better from the current front to do this or I'd be tempted. I've long admired the trunkline from the back on this tree.Take another look at this photo from the actual angle currently, the branch you are circling is in actuality more down and towards, than this angled shot shows.
I do appreciate the feedback!
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
There is nice tree here altogether. However first front seems two different trees: one is trunk, one is foliage that do not seem a good combo at this angle. I also see tree going away. Either end view trunk looks better and bigger. Perhaps because head of tree appears smaller. Like this more natural irregularity of foliage. Also somewhat better for quarter view but can also see trunk is going away from you as if windswept or leaning over cliff. Without doubt you will get this all worked out. Will be interesting to see.
. Will be interesting to see.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Some of what you see is not apparent in person, but we will see what a new angle can do for the issues that everyone is seeing with this tree. Thanks!
Alas... this is an example of the problem with "pigeon breast" trees. It's not that the trunk is unattractive, the "pigeon breast", it's what the stance does to the whole balance of the tree.
First, think about how a pigeon looks: his chest is somewhat puffed out, but his head is held back. They don't always have that posture, but this is the posture that gives rise to the name;
So, what we have, is the breast of the pigeon is further in front than the head.
Now, look at the first picture in post 303. The lower trunk is closer to the viewer than the highest bit of foliage. It doesn't matter if the branch the highest foliage is growing towards the viewer, it's where it IS that matters. Looking at that first picture, we can see that the highest foliage is either directly above the center of the nebari or is behind the base of the trunk.
In any event, it is well behind the front of the trunk.
The third picture in post 303 shows the highest bit of foliage to be more forward. But is that really the apex? Or a frontal branch? This is why it's really hard to style a tree based upon photos. So much depends upon the viewing angle.
My suggestion is to tilt the tree towards the viewer, bringing the apex in front of the trunk. The back branches would then need to be wired down.
Another option is to use the other side of the tree as the front.
First, think about how a pigeon looks: his chest is somewhat puffed out, but his head is held back. They don't always have that posture, but this is the posture that gives rise to the name;
So, what we have, is the breast of the pigeon is further in front than the head.
Now, look at the first picture in post 303. The lower trunk is closer to the viewer than the highest bit of foliage. It doesn't matter if the branch the highest foliage is growing towards the viewer, it's where it IS that matters. Looking at that first picture, we can see that the highest foliage is either directly above the center of the nebari or is behind the base of the trunk.
In any event, it is well behind the front of the trunk.
The third picture in post 303 shows the highest bit of foliage to be more forward. But is that really the apex? Or a frontal branch? This is why it's really hard to style a tree based upon photos. So much depends upon the viewing angle.
My suggestion is to tilt the tree towards the viewer, bringing the apex in front of the trunk. The back branches would then need to be wired down.
Another option is to use the other side of the tree as the front.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Thank you so much for posting these lovely images of birds. I am glad you did, as I've never seen one before! (sarcasm, just in case you missed it...)
As I've said several times now, I will try out new angles to see if I can overcome the trunk issues. If not, I suppose I'll just toss it on the woodpile!
Thanks for taking the time to post Adair.
And then we would be back to the horror of the apex moving away...
As I've said several times now, I will try out new angles to see if I can overcome the trunk issues. If not, I suppose I'll just toss it on the woodpile!
It will be. I've said that I'm in the process of lengthening this branch to be the apex. Besides, by the meaning of the word, the topmost branch IS the apex, regardless of it's orientation.
Thanks for taking the time to post Adair.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
maybe if we used booty curve instead of pigeon breast as a term everyone would want one!
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
Wow, what a beautiful tree!
I haven't seen this one before!
That's just a straight JWP, right?
No graft....?
I haven't seen this one before!
That's just a straight JWP, right?
No graft....?
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
This is a graft, it's just a good one. That's why I picked this tree, the bark and the graft are so good, that the faults are a bit easier to overlook. Not that I'm done, I'll work on the booty curve by angling the planting next season.
Thanks JWI.
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
Dang! Fooled me good!
Andrew Robson
Shohin
Pigeon breast trees are really not a problem like we make them out to be. Many fantastic trees have them. It's really a myth that we have seemed to have made up in America, like many things in bonsai. Not unlike bar branches. People who preach the blasphemy of bar branches tend to have trees that are far too thin...
dirk hoorelbeke
Omono
I always find it difficult to comment on a tree with this qualities. I find it a fantastic tree and she is happy. You have made the choice to lean the tree more to the left, it gives the tree a more massive feeling and it accentuates the rootbase. Somehow i like the 2012 image more. It's more feminine (and i'm a man), the angle of the dropping branch is better. And with the current pictures the top portion of the tree is very vertical and makes this a very static tree. It might be that there is a better front somewhere accentuating the dropping branch and the empty area below it. For sure you will lose some other benifits and i am just looking at a photo so keep that in mind. I might come to the same conclusion when i have the tree in my hands or not. I'm looking forward to the evolution. Thanks for sharing this journey with us!
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
I have always wondered why yamadori gets a pass for each and every flaw that they have, and yet grown trees must conform. Just an observation...
@dirk hoorelbeke I am always looking to better my trees, and conifers are not really my strong suit, so I'm actually pretty happy to receive critique and suggestions. We will see what happens at the repot!
@dirk hoorelbeke I am always looking to better my trees, and conifers are not really my strong suit, so I'm actually pretty happy to receive critique and suggestions. We will see what happens at the repot!
