Shimpaku Help

harpua.cam · Jan 5, 2017

Picked this stock up at Plant City in Northern Georgia. I highly recommend checking the place out if in the area. This is my first shimpaku and I want to train it for a shohin style. I need some suggestions on how which style to choose. Thanks in advance!

Redwood Ryan · Jan 5, 2017

How about some shots of the full tree?

harpua.cam · Jan 5, 2017

Thought I had attached one!

Eric Group · Jan 5, 2017

Wire some crazy movement in those branches as low as you can, then let it grow out for a long time.. in a couple years you might have something worth styling.

Vance Wood · Jan 5, 2017

I can't tell whether this tree will make a good shohin or kindling for a fire. You guys have to learn how to take some legible pictures. Your photograph is so strongly back lit important detail and color disappears in the shadows. All I can see at this point is a lot of sparsely covered sticks that don't look too healthy. I really don't mean to be so blunt but I could tell you this tree could be a world class Shimpaku in two years just as easily, but which information would help you more?

MichaelS · Jan 5, 2017

Very quickly....

harpua.cam · Jan 6, 2017

Thanks for the help Mike! I apologize for the poor picture quality. I was at work all day and rushed to take some too late in the day.

Vance Wood · Jan 6, 2017

You need to take a picture where the back ground is darker than the tree and the tree is lit from the front.

harpua.cam · Jan 7, 2017

Here are a couple of better pictures.

Vance Wood · Jan 7, 2017

Here is one of my Shimpakus. This photo was taken outdoors in the morning with the sun coming in from the left as you view the tree. The background is dark growth and the tree is relatively well lit. That is the kind of photo you need to take or you need to get a flash and use it. I really want to help you make a better bonsai of this tree. Just because you can see the tree with that amazing apparatus called the eye does not mean the camera, which is probably your phone, will give you a decent photo. When you get the photo file ready to download on to this site hit the button that says full image.

Notice the way the light gets into the interior of the tree and for the most part you can see the foliage and the branching in a light your eye can understand.

As things are at present this tree is not healthy enough to cut back hard enough to make a difference. You need to give it a year or two to gain strength in a good soil where it is allowed to grow and gain strength.

harpua.cam · Jan 7, 2017

I will plant it in a large pot tomorrow. Beautiful tree btw. Thanks for the patience with a rookie.

MichaelS · Jan 7, 2017

I disagree with Vance that this tree is not healthy enough to work on. It's perfectly healthy. The reason it has no lower foliage is that they were shaded off in the nursery. Also, there is no need to place it in a larger pot. It will take 3 years to re-establish itself for not much advantage. You can go ahead and design the tree on paper now and start working on it. Especially given that you are in a mild area.
If you pot it up and have to wait you will probably lose patience and interest, in which case, buy yourself 3 more to look at.

harpua.cam · Jan 7, 2017

MichaelS said:
I disagree with Vance that this tree is not healthy enough to work on. It's perfectly healthy. The reason it has no lower foliage is that they were shaded off in the nursery. Also, there is no need to place it in a larger pot. It will take 3 years to re-establish itself for not much advantage. You can go ahead and design the tree on paper now and start working on it. Especially given that you are in a mild area.
If you pot it up and have to wait you will probably lose patience and interest, in which case, buy yourself 3 more to look at.

Thanks for the advice. Could you help me understand the notations in your quick sketch above? I'm guessing the red line is determining the front? What do the gray and white areas represent? Also, the numbers are branches I'm assuming? Thanks in advance!

Vance Wood · Jan 7, 2017

I don't know how MichaelS can make the assertion he does that I am wrong . With your photos it is all but impossible to determine the health of the tree. You cannot even see the nature of the color and then he flippantly remarks about if you kill it you can always get three more? Shimpakus are not all that easy to just get one, why mistreat this one as your first tree by not doing the major thing you should do in all bonsai; make sure the tree is healthy before you start working on it.

sorce · Jan 8, 2017

Vance Wood said:
flippantly remarks

He said if he repots it....
He can't do anything and will get bored...
So buy 3 more....

But I fully agree....

The new pics look of brown more than dormant in some parts.

Sorce

Vance Wood · Jan 8, 2017

Either way I'm done with it. You can listen and in this case, may involve nothing more than paying attention to the direction of the major light source and the tree.

harpua.cam · Jan 8, 2017

Thanks again guys! I've decided to pot it for a few seasons and have no doubt about the health of the tree.

Daluke · Jan 8, 2017

Hi.

Don't touch the tree.

Repotting it will set it back. Fertilise with whatever you can and water and give it as much sun as you can.

I think in a season or two you'll have the benefit of a tree that will be even fuller and more time to decide on the path you want.

Shohin is a hard size to pull off. Everything is smaller and you have little room for error.

Put some crazy bends in it and work on getting its height lower... when the time is right.

This will backbud no problems given lots of feed, sun and water.

My suggestion is a new angle (denoted by white in diagram) and removal/jinning of unwanted branches and trunks.

MichaelS · Jan 8, 2017

harpua.cam said:
Thanks for the advice. Could you help me understand the notations in your quick sketch above? I'm guessing the red line is determining the front? What do the gray and white areas represent? Also, the numbers are branches I'm assuming? Thanks in advance!

The red line is a new planting angle. The grey areas are where you have removed branches and the white areas are jin. I've added another little line sketch on the pic to give some idea of the new form. Of course this is just one option to consider and no doubt there are many more, but from this distance I can't really see much. It is really just to give you some food for thought.
If those areas which appear brown (tips of foliage) really ARE brown, forget everything I've said!

Woody Carverton · Jan 11, 2017

I'm with @Vance Wood on this one. Pot it up and give it a few seasons to heal. It was clearly light deprived at the nursery on the lower branches and its hard to tell how it will recover from that in terms of new growth. If you wanted to look at wired sticks you would have probably bought a deciduous tree that loses its leaves. Until this baby puts some new foliage on so you can tell whats going to grow so you know what to style, all you would be doing is guessing and possibly trimming off what could have been your best branch options which you would never know if you cut them now.

As any of the professionals will tell you, don't work on a tree to make it look pretty today. Work on it to make it the best it can be 10 years from now and you will always end up with a beautiful and valuable specimen in the future. Not doing so is really the main separating line between a hobby, and art. So you really have to ask yourself, are you a bonsai hobbyist? or an aspiring artist? Then decide what you are going to do. There is nothing wrong with either as long as you are OK with the choice you make.

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