Procumbens...(nana)..maintenance before & after

MichaelS

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Adair M said:
One more thing... a healthy mature Procumbens can make scale foliage like a shimpaku. If the tree is stressed, it produces the juvenile foliage.
Click to expand...
Well that is just not true. Healthy ones in the ground here never produce scale foliage. They are anything but stressed. If anything, it's the other way round. Unless you call a juniper that puts on 3 feet of new growth in a season stressed...
Well... you asked how they do them in Japan, so I told you.
Click to expand...

You can't get growth this tight and close using just scissors.
JPJ.JPG

Pinching all the tips can weaken the tree. The growing tips produce auxin. Auxin is the hormone that stimulates root growth. If you remove the auxin, the roots don't grow as vigorously, and the tree could weaken.
Click to expand...

Also not entirely accurate Adair. If it was then it would be impossible to cut the head off a cutting and root it without artificial hormones. Something which has been done for centuries. I always remove the soft part of a juniper ctting before striking it. Auxins are produced in the stems and the roots as well as by bacteria in the rhizosphere. They are translocated throughout the plant
Pinching the tree will not weaken it any more than removing the same amount of foliage mass with scissors. You will probably also remove the same amount of auxin cutting with scissors as pinching if you remove the same foliage mass. Unfortunately pinching does lead to blackened tips in conifers. By scissor cutting only you just THINK the tree is healthier because you can't see all those brown tips.
 
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MichaelS

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LanceMac10 said:
I like how you carried over the deadwood work on the "virt branches" to mimic what is there already.

Would you consider moving the lowest "back branch" back towards the viewers left, giving some foliage to that side of the composition?
Click to expand...
It kind of was there before. I brought it closer to the other one. The tip of it is headed back there though.
 
M. Frary

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LanceMac10 said:
This I have seen. All be it on a variegated one. Which I'm still convinced it was Parsonni....is it the same plant? Parsonni/Procumbens?
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No. Parsons scale foliage is way looser and longer or stringy.
Procumbens is more like Shimpaku.
I almost said smaller and tighter.
 
Adair M

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MichaelS said:
Well that is just not true. Healthy ones in the ground here never produce scale foliage. They are anything but stressed. If anything, it's the other way round. Unless you call a juniper that puts on 3 feet of new growth in a season stressed...


You can't get growth this tight and close using just scissors.
View attachment 132273



Also not entirely accurate Adair. If it was then it would be impossible to cut the head off a cutting and root it without artificial hormones. Something which has been done for centuries. I always remove the soft part of a juniper ctting before striking it. Auxins are produced in the stems and the roots as well as by bacteria in the rhizosphere. They are translocated throughout the plant
Pinching the tree will not weaken it any more than removing the same amount of foliage mass with scissors. You will probably also remove the same amount of auxin cutting with scissors as pinching if you remove the same foliage mass. Unfortunately pinching does lead to blackened tips in conifers. By scissor cutting only you just THINK the tree is healthier because you can't see all those brown tips.
Click to expand...
By "pinching", I'm not referring to whether the foliage is removed by fingers vs scissors. What is considered "pinching" is just removing the growing tip. And leaving some stem behind. Whether it's done with fingers or scissors, it's equally bad.

The technique that's preferred is to remove the entire stem. If your fingers are really strong, you could probably do it with your fingers! I prefer using scissors.

And mature Procumbens can produce scale foliage. Ask Vance. I brought two dozen big 30 year old Procumbens up to Rochester, and let Vance pick out a couple. Most of them were scale foliage. Some were half and half.

And, yes you can get tight foliage using just scissors.
 
wireme

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MichaelS said:
After about 8 hours, the whole tree is done. Am I happy with it? Not really. I have toyed with removing the lower branches for a few years but still not sure. Opinions please!
The shari will be continued up the trunk when the wire comes off. Maybe some more jin to reduce it further....Tilt it, straighten it up? who knows! Reduce the height?
Click to expand...

Well, since you seem to be not fully satisfied I tried to play with a reduction that would be full makeover different than now. Not sure anything good came of it but I did discover an interesting seahorse bird hybrid kind of creature there. image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg I like it really a lot the just the way you have it now myself, the wired and thinned version. Or I will once you finish wiring the crown out anyways...;)
 
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MichaelS

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wireme said:
Well, since you seem to be not fully satisfied I tried to play with a reduction that would be full makeover different than now. Not sure anything good came of it but I did discover an interesting seahorse bird hybrid kind of creature there. View attachment 132300View attachment 132301View attachment 132302 I like it really a lot the just the way you have it now myself, the wired and thinned version. Or I will once you finish wiring the crown out anyways...;)
Click to expand...
Wow that's pretty full on! Maybe in the distant future.......
 
Adair M

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MichaelS said:
They look stressed :D And just like San Jose junipers to me. Can you show me the trunk of one?
Click to expand...
Maybe Vance will post a picture of his. These are 30 to 35 years old, grown in Florida. Most are multiple trunks they're wide, 3 to 4 feet wide, and overhang their pots. So, it's difficult to show the trunks until they've been worked.
 
zelk

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The branching is fine. I wouldn't think about cutting any low branches when you have a lot of development that can come from leaving those in place. I don't see any aesthetic conflict with the current branch structure, including the low branching. nice work thinning it out, I can see a cap on the top of the tree where the foliage left is suddenly denser. Was that intentional to let the apex thickness catch up or because the apex was not lignified?
 
sorce

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wireme said:
Well, since you seem to be not fully satisfied I tried to play with a reduction that would be full makeover different than now. Not sure anything good came of it but I did discover an interesting seahorse bird hybrid kind of creature there. View attachment 132300View attachment 132301View attachment 132302 I like it really a lot the just the way you have it now myself, the wired and thinned version. Or I will once you finish wiring the crown out anyways...;)
Click to expand...

That's dope!

If this tree were mine....
And I saw that....

I would instantly cut off a branch to get there.

Everyone has been tinkering around with So So....

That....is THE move!

Sorce
 
erb.75

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imo, jin the bottom right branch, but leave the rest. the rest looks really good judging by your original picture in the post.
 
just.wing.it

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Great thread guys!
Both needle and scale foliage on Procumbens....hmm...
Is there anything else that may explain that, in Florida grown Procumbens?
I'll look at my little guy closer...but I think it's all needles, and it's definitely healthy.
 
just.wing.it

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Vin

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MichaelS said:
So after some brutal bending the apex was lowered. (couldn't wait) Also, every single growing point was pinched out (yes pinched by hand) I will post what happens when it does......
Click to expand...
People get "Jin Happy" sometimes (myself included). It's obviously progressing really well in very capable hands. I wouldn't change a thing if it were my tree.
 
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