One For Smoke, Trident Chop

Tieball

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I have a similar issue with mine. I'm going to sand the "chicken breast" down with a right angle die grinder. I think I'll sand it down and let it callus over though.
So....I'm very new to the whole sanding component. I've done a lot of woodworking though so I know what sanding is like for that. Do you literally sand the tree similarly?
Do then have to carve or cut the edge for proper sealing/healing?
Do you sand the inside of the cut area to be lower than the edge?
What do you do about the bark that begins to dry on the outside edge? Do you cut/carve it off?
 

sorce

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Man.....kind of coincidental......

That Dewalt Knife I got in the pocket knives thread......with the blade on the 45degree angle, instead of curved......

I never used one of those before.....I took it to a ficus wound and man.......that 45degree angle on the tip really makes it nice to cut things smooth.

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Ok a bit more than 45.....

But I suspect that's why the grafting knives work so well...?

Anyway.....it's real nice for cleaning up the sides good.

Lovin this project John!

Sorce
 

Vin

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So....I'm very new to the whole sanding component. I've done a lot of woodworking though so I know what sanding is like for that. Do you literally sand the tree similarly?
Do then have to carve or cut the edge for proper sealing/healing?
Do you sand the inside of the cut area to be lower than the edge?
What do you do about the bark that begins to dry on the outside edge? Do you cut/carve it off?
Yes, sand it just like you were doing woodwork. I have a 60 gallon air compressor and quite a few air tools. I like to use the right angle die grinder with a 2" sanding disc for this type of work. After I get the area where I want it, I take it down just a tad more. I usually finish the area off with some hand sanding using fine grit sandpaper. You want the area as smooth as possible as explained in another post. Then I seal it with some Duct Seal (you can get it at Lowe's. Good luck.
 

Paulpash

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You have thought about it, or have done it and had better success?

I have had better success obviously .....

This is an oak - ALL the branches on this recently carved tree are grafted (thread). One is still on as you can see from the bent basal shoot:



This is an cotoneaster. I grafted a basal sacrifice branch on when it was in the ground thickening up. Over a decade later and the top had to be cut away due to dieback / coral spot. It now forms the entire tree. There's an entry hole still visible on the left.



Approach grafts on a large juniper - changing it's foliage type to a more desirable scale type (blauuw's):




I will take a pic of the thread graft of the larch in my dad's garden when I go to visit and add this in too.

Other than maples - what else have YOU grafted? And just so we're all on the same page I'll never comment on things I haven't done or been successful in. All the species above are harder to graft than trident maple which calluses over very quickly as well as the donor branch thickening quickly. I'm being serious saying that if you're only having 50% success with maples then your technique is poor, it's almost foolproof.
 

Mellow Mullet

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Yes, sand it just like you were doing woodwork. I have a 60 gallon air compressor and quite a few air tools. I like to use the right angle die grinder with a 2" sanding disc for this type of work. After I get the area where I want it, I take it down just a tad more. I usually finish the area off with some hand sanding using fine grit sandpaper. You want the area as smooth as possible as explained in another post. Then I seal it with some Duct Seal (you can get it at Lowe's. Good luck.

Smoothness can't be stressed enough, I did not pay close enough attention to Al's info and missed this. My scar should be healed by now, but since I left it rough and angular, it is taking a longer time and it looks kinda wonky.

John
 

Mellow Mullet

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I have had better success obviously .....

This is an oak - ALL the branches on this recently carved tree are grafted (thread). One is still on as you can see from the bent basal shoot:



This is an cotoneaster. I grafted a basal sacrifice branch on when it was in the ground thickening up. Over a decade later and the top had to be cut away due to dieback / coral spot. It now forms the entire tree. There's an entry hole still visible on the left.



Approach grafts on a large juniper - changing it's foliage type to a more desirable scale type (blauuw's):




I will take a pic of the thread graft of the larch in my dad's garden when I go to visit and add this in too.

Other than maples - what else have YOU grafted? And just so we're all on the same page I'll never comment on things I haven't done or been successful in. All the species above are harder to graft than trident maple which calluses over very quickly as well as the donor branch thickening quickly. I'm being serious saying that if you're only having 50% success with maples then your technique is poor, it's almost foolproof.

I have grafted before, using Al's blog and some advice on it from club members and had some success and some failure, I don't know anyone who is 100%, unless they are just lucky. There is a guy in my club who has a passion for tridents, almost as much as AL, and has been growing them for a long time, he even admits to some failures. I think what aAl was saying was graft as many as you can, in case one fails, if too many take, you can always remove them. The old "bird in hand" thing.

Your grafting looks good, except for the juniper, it does not look natural to me, too much of a hump. I think the channel should have been deeper. I did the same thing on a Japanese maple a couple of years ago. I never looked right, always like a crossing branch that attached itself to the trunk. Ended up cutting it off and starting over.

John
 

Tieball

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Smoothness can't be stressed enough, I did not pay close enough attention to Al's info and missed this. My scar should be healed by now, but since I left it rough and angular, it is taking a longer time and it looks kinda wonky.

John
Smooth....really smooth....no burrs. Do you cut the edge with a sharp knife to remove even the finest feathery edge? Or....let extra fine sandpaper do the job?
Okay....same subject....would you sand most any tree that heals over? More specifically...American Elm?
 

Tieball

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Then I seal it with some Duct Seal (you can get it at Lowe's. Good luck.
I'm not familiar with Duct Seal. Is that the same, generally speaking, as covering with a cut paste?
 

Cadillactaste

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I have a similar issue with mine. I'm going to sand the "chicken breast" down with a right angle die grinder. I also thought about opening the area up and making it a feature. I think I'll sand it down and let it callus over though.

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Love the movement on this one Vin...the base just accentuates the feeling of movement.
 
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sorce

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Haha...seriously....

My concern with the juniper is the location.....being so close to that other branch....like it will have a big ball there later when cut.....

@Marie1uk I absolutely love how you smoked Smoke!

But......this seems like a possibly a difference between grafting for bonsai...and grafting for (other).
(but as I typed that I remember the knowledge you post....so I'm doubting my thoughts!)

I always see them fail.......

And for the record.....I tried a times.....unsuccessfully!
I'm not a grafter!

I want to hear this conversation!

Sorce
 

Paulpash

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I cannot honestly remember a thread graft failing but I have failed inarch and approach - these are more like 50%. But it really really jars my apple cart when everyone is classed a complete moron with zero knowledge until they've posted nine million times & have thousands of pics.
 

sorce

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nine million times & have thousands of pics

I wouldn't mind you getting there!
I absolutely loved the spring footwork post!

Cheers Marie!

I like your style!

Sorce
 

Mellow Mullet

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Well I decided that today is the day, or well, yesterday was the day, and I chopped it. It had grown to ten feet or so and the new growth had gotten big enough. The scar has healed over pretty good and hopefully will be close to closing this season. It was so pot bound that the soil would not drain very well and the roots had started growing up to find room. my only regret is that I did not do any grafts, just not any time. Here is what I did:

The start...
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The first cut...
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The final cut...
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Cleaning up the edges
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Mellow Mullet

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I then sealed the wound. I have been using a new sealer for about a year now and it works just as good as the yellow tube stuff from Japan, at a fraction of the cost. I just use latex caulk, thinned with water to make it more fluid. It comes in many colors to match different trunks and costs about three bucks for a huge tube.

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I then trimmed the inside of the scar material and sealed it to hopefully speed the healing...

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Oh, and this is a pretty good saw, smooth, fast cut. I got it at Home Depot. You can spend 40 bucks on a "bonsai" saw or 15 on this one.

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Tomorrow, I will post pictures of the repot and show you why you should not wait five years before you do root work on tridents.

John
 
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Mellow Mullet

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Ok, so here is why you don't check the roots on your trident for five years. I may be more that five, but I know for a fact that I haven't checked the roots in that long.

Here it is again after the chop
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And now out of the pot. What a mess, a complete solid mass of roots and almost no soil. I don't know where it all went, it was planted in lava/pine bark.

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